Gray Wolves

I keep my nose out of western problems. There are too many Eastern activists involved in the wolf controversy. A lot of eastern money goes into the controversity. They go to Yellowstone and see the wolves but they don't have to live with them or have them attack their livestock. The solutions should be made at the state level by qualified wildlife and conservation professionals. If wolf hunting is allowed it will be strictly limited by permit and bag limits. Activitists lead us to believe that it will be all out warfare on the wolves. This is not true. There will be a season and a limited number of permits. Ranchers should be given more descretion on protecting their livestock without the risk of federal penalties.
 
ironclad said:
In my opinion, if people living within wolves territory lose livestock to them, that is the price they will have to pay for raising animals without the ability to escape or defend themselves. One has to account for livestock losses if living within their territory, and learn to accept it. .
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That's very easy to say when it's not your livestock being killed.

Also understand that when the majority of those people started ranching there there weren't any wolves. They were re-introduced by the Feds in 1995.

Somewhere between the two extreme views.....no wolves at all and no hunting at all.....lies the answer. Whether either side will see it that way is another question.
 
ironclad said:
The fact of the matter is that it is man who has and continues to be the primary cause of the imbalance now seen in nature.
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Rabbits peak and crash, populations of predators of rabbits tend to follow this same cycle. Are the rabbits "responsible" for the imbalance? Sometimes predators populations will exceed the carrying capacity of their prey, resulting in a population crash; do we "blame" the predators for destroying the balance? Predators will often hunt and destroy, and out-compete, lessor predators; witness the low populations of coyotes in areas with high wolf populations. Should we "blame" the wolves for destroying the natural balance?

All animals will, in one way or another, impact the populations of other animals. Except when the animal "causing the imbalance" is man, we don't assign blame or make value judgments.
 
coffeecup said:
All animals will, in one way or another, impact the populations of other animals. Except when the animal "causing the imbalance" is man, we don't assign blame or make value judgments.
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Because we tend to consider ourselves a pretty intelligent species; top dog, if you will. We know better, but we still cut down massive amounts of trees, encroach on more and more wilderness, and kill off more and more species. So, yeah, I'm assigning blame for quite a bit.
 
And another....

"Attacks by a rabid wolf, or wolves, would be a notable event at this rendezvous. Over two or three successive nights, about a dozen men total were bitten savagely on the face in both of the lower camps as well as some livestock. At least one of these men would subsequently die of hydrophobia over the next several weeks."

http://home.att.net/~mman/Rendezvous1833.htm
 
Call me cynical but I don't think ranchers have the wolves' best interests at heart. If its left to their 'discretion' I'm pretty sure they will take every opportunity to remove the threat - real or perceived - to their property. Ranchers are not above using traps or poison either, or whatever means they see necessary to eliminating the threat.

To me the Gray Wolf is just as much a symbol of the USA as the Grizzly, Buffalo or Bald Eagle. I cannot understand why people would not want to protect one of their most famous apex predators. I see so many avatars here of wolves, and yet, for the sake of a few bovines, people seem happy to see them vanish once again from the landscape. In a country the size of the USA, is there really not enough space for a few hundred animals the size of a large dog?

I don't believe it's a Western problem, or an American problem, but a universal problem. As long as people are allowed or encouraged to visit each other's countries, wildlife will always be high on the list of 'must see' attractions.

When we visit the USA one day, one destination we will definitely include is Yellowstone, (and Glacier, if I have anything to say about it). To see what the country looked like before it was 'civilised' is a very special privilege, and to have every aspect of that wilderness intact, including the beasts that define the term 'wilderness', is a significant achievement, and the sign of a truly 'civilised' country.

I would ashamed if you were ever to visit my country and there were no Lion, Leopard, Wild dog, Cheetah or Great White Shark for you to see. Believe me, we have the same problems where wildlife conflicts with the never-ending human need for more grazing land, but tourism is too great a source of income for us to even contemplate losing these assets. Perhaps the USA can do without tourism, but its not always about money, is it?




zman308 said:
Ranchers should be given more descretion on protecting their livestock without the risk of federal penalties.
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I believe I'll take the same stance i do with other wildlife:
If they don't screw with me, I won't screw with them.
 
I'm taking Range and Wildlife Management at my University, that's also my major. I'll save this for May and tell you guys what I think then.

Without my classes, I would be all for keeping the wolves preserved. There's not THAT many of them considering if they were "Hunted" all it would take is about 50 eager people to shoot up the whole lot of them. There's a lot of people out there, maybe that's why the government won't give us cures for all of these sicknesses out there. A way to "manage" us too, eh? (not saying that viruses and disease is good at all, just stating my opinion on some of my "conspiracy theories.") Ever notice how we all have the "flu season" EVERY YEAR at just about the same time, makes you wonder.
 
Ironclad---There is iron in your words. Let the wolves live and let this thread die.
 
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