Greco Falcon....broke!

[SkagSig40]

I bought a Falcon folder from John Greco at Blade this year and I must say that John is a really nice, layed back guy. The Falcon is a very heavy duty folder with a lock up as tight as a CR Sebenza with absolutly no blade play. The blade is made of 8670 carbon steel which is a european steel used in industry to cut other steels. The knife is exactly the same size as my large Sebenza(sorry I don't have a tape measure with me for exact measurements) and is 3/16 thick. It is a framlock folder and the handle/lock is also made of 8670. As other reviews have stated the first thing you notice about this knife is it is extreamly stiff and at first you will need 2 hands to open and close the knife. After a few days of "break in" it is much easier to use and can be opened/closed with one hand.
One of the first things I noticed was that the blade was rubbing on the liner when you open/closed the knife. I looked at this closer and it was indeed the blade that was not straight. I think it was warped or maybe ground crooked but I really couldn't tell. This really bothered me at first but this is a hard using knife so I tried not to let it bug me to much. I have heard that many Falcons have this problem(warped blade)and I talked to John about this and he said that he was having a few blades warp and he had no control over it as some came out straight and others came out warped??? He is trying to work out the bugs as to why this was happening.
Well I thought to myself I think I can bend this blade back to straight in a vice. So I put the folder in my vice about 1 inch from the tip and applied pressure on the handle where the tang meets the lock. I did not want to grab the handle at the butt because that would probibly break the blade/handle juncture. I put alot of strength on the blade and it flexed quite a bit(I'm guessing maybe 20-30 degrees but I'm probibly off a bit). The blade just kept spring back to true time and time again! I gave it one more try to see if I could get it even a little more straight. I put all my body weight(175 pounds) on the blade as hard as I could and "bounced" on it and then the blade snapped! The 1 inch that was in the vice snapped off. Now I felt pretty dumb as I was not trying to break the knife but just trying to get it straight so it would not rub on the liner. I called John and told him what happened and that it was totaly my fault that the knife broak and that I wanted to buy another one only if it had a straight blade. He said no problem and sent me one(perfectly straight) at no charge as his knives are guaranted no matter what! Only few makers will offer a guarante this good to cover extream abuse!! John said this was the first folder that came back broken and he said He tried to break one in a vice just like I did but was unable to as he said he weighs 135.

Well I must say Greco knives may not win any beauty contests but I will sat they are extreamly strong and and 8670 holds a great edge with the best and the servise is tops!!! If you are looking for a strong folder,maybe the strongest on the market the Greco Falcon might be for you and I know it will never fail you in the field!

 

[OwenM]

That's a great guarantee, and a great show of customer service.

I have a Falcon, and the blade looks warped. But it's not...
The tang is straight, where it is shaped for the pivot. Then where the blade is ground there is a line on top, above the thumbstud. The portions in front of, and behind, where the grinds meet are straight, but they are not in line with each other. Looks like the whole blade was ground at an odd angle to the formed tang. This is the thickest section of the blade, and seems the least likely part to warp.
Took some study to figure this out, but putting a straight edge ahead of, and behind the thumbstud shows it clearly. The swedge is not evenly ground, and adds to the impression that the blade itself is crooked.

Some had speculated that stamping the maker's mark may have caused this, but mine goes off in the opposite direction it would if that were the cause.

I have also thought about putting it in a vise, and trying to straighten it outo), but think I'll just leave it alone, since the knife isn't being used, anyway, and it would probably be impossible to get right without heating up the blade, and ruining the temper.

 

[knifenerd]

Being a recent convert to the Greco line, your experiences are quite interesting. Sounds like the customer service can't be beat. It took me several days of effort to get my Falcon to open and close with reasonalble effort, and even now, it's no speed demon, but I don't think it was designed to be.

BTW, I think the Falcon has good, clean looks. Kind of a case of "beauty follows function".

 

[Mongrel]

I can really relate to your story Skag!

After finally getting my Falcon 'just right'-one hand open\close and really qutie smooth, I moved onto to work out some of the other 'bugs'.

1. I ignored my own advice and did a little file work on the thumbstud side scale. As suggested in an earlier thread by mikemck I opened up the scale to allow better access to the frame-lock. Not perfect but MUCH BETTER! My initial fear in response to mikemck's suggestion was of lock failure because of too easy access. I decided with the Falcon that would not be a problem so I opened it up with a half-round bastard file. Thanks mikemcm

2. The next bug which has gotten to be more and more of a MAJOR pet peeve was the "bent blade syndrome"! Man, it started to really bother me. So as Skag mentioned above-put 'er in the ole vise! I tried to use the pressure from the vise jaws to bring it true, and as was his experience, no way was it gonna work. I really didn't think that grabbing the handle would do it either. But since it was in the vice already...

I grabbed the handle and thought I'd check how good the frame lock really was. A bit of twisting, and bit of pulling (not that hard mind you!)-and...

The lock held as tight as ever...but what was that? Something was definately wrong. Took it out of the vise and looked at the pivot area, hmmmmm....

I had busted the head of of the back-side of the pivot "screw"-actually the SS insert. Glad I bought the replacement parts kit! yeeesssshhhhhhhh!

Anyway, I'll post pics if I can.

Moral of the story-don't put your Falcon in a vise (I guess?).

Still peeved about that bent blade though, and besides the constant rubbing on the scale, I can never get that inner part of the blade quite as sharp as the rest.

edited to remove stupid question because I didn't read carefully enough-:footinmou
Mongrel

 

[Will'em]

great to hear about his helpfullness, I wound not think anyone would cover that kind of abuse im getting a dangler in 2 -3 days and this makes me feel even better

 

[SkagSig40]

I'm tellin' ya this is one of the toughest folders on the market if not the toughest!!! 99% of the folders on the market would have failed long befor the Falcon did with even half of the force I had on the Blade/handle! I'd like to see the Falcon and a Strider AR/GB go head to head in a destruction test to see which would hold up best!

What is that brand... "The #1 hard use knives in the world" I own 2 of these and being only 1/8 thick and having fairly thin liners there is now way they would hold up nearly as well as a Falcon/Strider/Marlow would!

 

[Jazzman]

I have a Griffon lined up for my birthday and I'm very excited. I checked out the knife when I first recieved it and it is incredible! One heck of a tough bugger.
Matt

 

[Quiet Storm]

Great customer service!

If I can find a Greco Falcon here in Germany for a reasonable price, I´ll think about purchasin´ one.

The American retail prices are of course very inexpensive.

 

[martin j]

I am glad you are happy with you Greco folders, however don't these experiences and frequency of similar problems like "tightness" and bent blade indicate poor quality control?
I think "do it yourself" approacj to life is good, however generally it is good when you can improve upon or "tailorize" something for your self, not make up for product's shortcommings.
I have never heard of a custom maker sell a blade that was bent in heat treating, you either re-straighten it by re-treating or throw it away. Because the warp follows all along the blade, not just one point like when you bend it yourself ,you can't just bend it back, it need to be re-treated.
It is good to hear Mr. Greco had excellent customer service, however would'nt it be better if he sent out a top-quality product (precise fit and assembly especially for folders) in the first place, that way he would'nt have to replace later? Isn't excellent customer service suppose to support excellent manufacturing screened and insured by excellent quality control? Not to compensate for less than optimal product the first time around.
Martin

 

[Quiet Storm]

martinj,
if you want a "hard-use" custom folder with an excellent lock, fantastic customer service at extremely low prices, maybe it´s a bit much to expect outstanding fit and finish as well, don´t ya think?

 

[Bobby B]

If you go to cqcknives.com you will see that that in the scree with the folders there are about 4 warnings about the "tightness" of the opening....

Cockroachfarm commented that the Greco folding knives come with a very unque safety feature: he can't open them by himself...

What you need to remember is that the Falcon costs between $50 - $75!!! The folder is not pretty, and has absolutely no frills (it does come with a sheath and wrench). It has hardened steel handles with a liner lock, and is very hard to open initially. My blade loos a little warped too, but seems to be straight when I look at it open...

I took mine apart and dremmeled the inside of the linerlock bar to take away a little thickness. It still locks up rock solid, but the bar exerts less pressure on the blade during opening, making it much easier. I also added ridges to the lock, and took away some metal from the opposite side to make the lock easier to disengage.

I think it makes a great working folder: basic and very solid. Don't expect Sebenza-like smoothness, details, or finish, but look at the price point. It's a lot of knife for the money.

Edited for terrible spelling...

 

[SkagSig40]

If John could get the blades straight 100% of the time I think it would be the perfect working knife! I know the tolerances are VERY tight because there is NO PLAY AT ALL!

 

[martin j]

Originally posted by Quiet Storm
martinj,
if you want a "hard-use" custom folder with an excellent lock, fantastic customer service at extremely low prices, maybe it´s a bit much to expect outstanding fit and finish as well, don´t ya think?

It depends, I am interested in it because it is so affordable for a "working man's" wage. Something like edge that comes not very sharp, no problem, I don't mind sharpening, however if blade is warped that may be more significant depending on its severity because there is no way for "end-user' to fix this.
I guess it is also matter of perspective, I have Greco Cub companion which is also excellent "bang for buck" knife, for truly "heavy duty" work which requires tough stell, lateral stress, and similar I would use fix-blade instead of folder anyway. I have never heard of warp blades leaving a shop, that is all, perhaps it was only one batch or early batch which is corrected now- if warp is minimal and you can live with it, yes Falcon is outstanding deal, if not then it may be poorly spent $50-75. So far it sounds like most/all early purchasers are happy, perhaps it is insignificant after all-
Martin

 

[Joe Liguori]

Ok, let's see:
1. I can't open it!
2. I can't close it!
3. I can't take it apart (darn hex bolts have nothing to grab)!
4. The blade is warped!
5. I can't carry it (no clip)!

Why did I purchase this knife? I guess it was the idea of getting a hand made folder for $50. In all fairness, I knew all about the above mentioned querks prior to making the purchase. In retrospect, I should have gotten one of John's fixed blades. This the strongest folder that I'll never carry!

Joe Liguori

 

[SkagSig40]

I wish it had a clip also! John said he was working on a clip for it. Maybe he would install one on it a little later.

 

[TorzJohnson]

During the big Greco sale I bought one of the fixed blades, a Green River. After reading this thread I sighted down the blade and darned if it isn't noticeably crooked. I'm not too concerned about it because it was fairly cheap and I'm not gonna baby it - but you can't help but wonder what the heck's going on? I'm glad I didn't pay full price for it anyway. It's a cool knife but I don't think I'll be buying any more Grecos.

 

[SALTY]

About the time I was buying my first Greco knife, I must have called him a half dozen times with a couple of questions. I never recived a returned call. I think he has some great designs and his prices are very reasonable, but I do wonder. I also cannot help but to notice how much he took the Shark and knocked off Jerry Busse's design.

 

[Will'em]

Just got my gerco Dangler the other day and its perfect it fits me perfectly. just a thought, this is Mr.Grecos first time doing folders right? I think it would be fair to give him time to work and improve on his design. I wouldn't expect a guy who usaly makes fixed blades to make great folders,Im very pleased with my dangler, and am quit happy with its quality I say we think about this.

 

[TorzJohnson]

Originally posted by Will'em
just a thought, this is Mr.Grecos first time doing folders right? I think it would be far to give him time to work and improve on his design... I say we think about this.

Will'em -

In my case it's a warped FIXED blade. Also, it's generous of you to urge people to give Greco time to "work on and improve his design"... but people shouldn't pay good money for a failed attempt at getting it right. Wanna trade me your perfect Dangler for my bent Green River? No? I didn't think so.

 

[Mongrel]

Why don't you call John Greco and ask him if he would replace your warped Green River for a staight one?

Here is his #

270-932-2225

Let us know how you make out.

Mongrel