Green Thorn Knives ?????

uilleann

uilleann

Joined
Nov 20, 2016
Messages
144
Its been about a year now since my knife collecting started with an Opinel #8. I now have almost $10K invested in knives. I kind of went a little crazy. Right now my favorites are made by Shirogorov, ZT, Reate, and a few others.

But I have been intrigued by the Chinese clones. I have not bought any that were full blown counterfiets with logos..... but the ones that look just like the originals with small differences.

I got a couple in the $20 - $50 range and they were crap with serious problems.

I then saw this copy of a Shiro F7 made by Green Thorn?? It was $246. I will never ever have a real F7 and figured... what the hell.

This knife blows me away. The action out of the box was 90% of what I have on my Shiro 95T. Some cleaning, relube, and lockbar tension adjustment and now its 100% the action of a Shiro. The fit, finish, and quality is amazing. Its does advertise M390 and it seemed softer to me than a 390 steel when sharpening.

So here are the questions:

1. Who is Green Thorn Knives?
2. If they can make a knife with this quality and action why don't they have their own designs? I do not want to support clone knives (yes I did buy some already). So I am not likely to buy more. But if they did their own designs I would be a regular customer??
 
This is a touchy subject.

Sometimes these shops do go legit and put out their own models.

Shirogorov and CKF knives are made in China and assembled in Russia. Kevin John knives makes the CKF knives, or atleast does work for them. The Chinese market is a real wild west story.
 
uilleann said:
2. If they can make a knife with this quality and action why don't they have their own designs? I do not want to support clone knives (yes I did buy some already). So I am not likely to buy more. But if they did their own designs I would be a regular customer??
Click to expand...

Yes, that is the question.
Click to expand...
 
uilleann said:
Its been about a year now since my knife collecting started with an Opinel #8. I now have almost $10K invested in knives. I kind of went a little crazy. Right now my favorites are made by Shirogorov, ZT, Reate, and a few others.

But I have been intrigued by the Chinese clones. I have not bought any that were full blown counterfiets with logos..... but the ones that look just like the originals with small differences.

I got a couple in the $20 - $50 range and they were crap with serious problems.

I then saw this copy of a Shiro F7 made by Green Thorn?? It was $246. I will never ever have a real F7 and figured... what the hell.

This knife blows me away. The action out of the box was 90% of what I have on my Shiro 95T. Some cleaning, relube, and lockbar tension adjustment and now its 100% the action of a Shiro. The fit, finish, and quality is amazing. Its does advertise M390 and it seemed softer to me than a 390 steel when sharpening.

So here are the questions:

1. Who is Green Thorn Knives?
2. If they can make a knife with this quality and action why don't they have their own designs? I do not want to support clone knives (yes I did buy some already). So I am not likely to buy more. But if they did their own designs I would be a regular customer??
Click to expand...

1. No one knows, as is the case with every one of the "brands" on the Chinese wholesale sites; most of the speculation is it's all the same factories making them, and the brand names are applied by whoever contracted the CNC factory to make them. All of these knives come from one relatively small city in China, and all of the people involved in making knives there seem to know each other. It's so incestuous that it's really hard pin anything down. Liong Mah talked about this on the Modern Neanderthal podcast, when he visited Reate he saw that there's just tons of buildings housing CNC machines who will machine things out for whoever contracts them.

2. I'm sure said factory would make original designs for contractors if that is what someone contracted them to do. There's a high demand for clones of Shirogorov's in Europe and so that's what people have made instead. There are some original designs on Aliexpress and DH Gate, but clones are in high demand.
 
$246 is a lot to pay for a Chinese copy IMO. I would have really worried about quality issues, but sounds like it worked out okay for you. Would love to see some pics.
 
I you want nice original designs look @ WE, CH, Dicoria has some too but there is a weird connection between them and Kevin John.Most of Kevin John's knives are his designs and I have handled a few, the are really top notch. One of my favorite Chinese companies is Real Steel, they are a subsidiary of Sanrenmu. I know that Sanrenmu Makes some of the knives for Boker Plus and I also observed that there is a connection with Real Steel and Boker Plus. Confusing isn't it. I know for sure that CH, WE and Real Steel are quality knives. As far as higher end knives their is Liong mah. Who does really knifes under his own name. Designs for American companies too. I hope this information was helpful and not too confusing.
I forgot about one of the best is Kizer. All original designs by mostly American designers and has 3 levels of price, Vanguard is the least expensive, I have a few and they are great Next is the Bladesmith category It's all designs from outside Artist & then ther is Prime which is high end inhouse designs.By the way all these knife companies have great action. It's interesting as to how they manage to do that and we can't. Our American companies better get it together soon because the Chinese companies are coming fast and we are the ones that taught them how to make them
 
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Is this knife even really a copy ?
If these shirogorov knives are actually made in China but assembled in Russia, is it possible that this is the same knife ? It costs a lot less, but could this not just be because it doesn't carry the shirogorov name and added expense of in house assembly ?

With Chinese knives there's just too much mystery behind who actually makes the knives and whether or not the company is anything more than a name / importer.
 
Someone should make a blockbuster novel/movie about this topic. Think of all the spies and double and triple and quintuple agents and collusion and stuff. I'll put my name on it if someone wants to ghost write.
 
AFAIK Green Thorn is just a brand.
Most of their higher end clones are made for the very hush hush internal Chinese market, but some find their way to the Chinese platforms as well.
They also make axes, knucks, belt buckles and spinners.
I think if they will eventually come out to the US market, they will pick a different name so they won't be associated with the clones they made in the past (like the Kevin John's Venom series knives that were sold under the CKF brand).
Or maybe they are already on the market, at least the products they made as OEM?
We'll probably never know.
 
American companies can't get what right???
BB flippers??? A few of them get it right.
ZT, Spyderco, Microtech, Guardian Tactical......they seem to get it right.
The problem is they can't get it done for $50. And there are those people that won't spend the $250 for them. They'd rather roll the dice and spend $50 and pray they get something decent.
This OP spent almost $300 on a copy. He had no clue what was going to be in that box in regards to quality.
That's an expensive roll of the dice.
Joe


emjay4248 said:
I you want nice original designs look @ WE, CH, Dicoria has some too but there is a weird connection between them and Kevin John.Most of Kevin John's knives are his designs and I have handled a few, the are really top notch. One of my favorite Chinese companies is Real Steel, they are a subsidiary of Sanrenmu. I know that Sanrenmu Makes some of the knives for Boker Plus and I also observed that there is a connection with Real Steel and Boker Plus. Confusing isn't it. I know for sure that CH, WE and Real Steel are quality knives. As far as higher end knives their is Liong mah. Who does really knifes under his own name. Designs for American companies too. I hope this information was helpful and not too confusing.
I forgot about one of the best is Kizer. All original designs by mostly American designers and has 3 levels of price, Vanguard is the least expensive, I have a few and they are great Next is the Bladesmith category It's all designs from outside Artist & then ther is Prime which is high end inhouse designs.By the way all these knife companies have great action. It's interesting as to how they manage to do that and we can't. Our American companies better get it together soon because the Chinese companies are coming fast and we are the ones that taught them how to make them
Click to expand...
 
palonej said:
American companies can't get what right???
BB flippers??? A few of them get it right.
ZT, Spyderco, Microtech, Guardian Tactical......they seem to get it right.
The problem is they can't get it done for $50. And there are those people that won't spend the $250 for them. They'd rather roll the dice and spend $50 and pray they get something decent.
This OP spent almost $300 on a copy. He had no clue what was going to be in that box in regards to quality.
That's an expensive roll of the dice.
Joe
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The reality is that the Chinese have infiltrated the higher end knife market Both in price and quality either on there own or through American companies that manufacture knives over there. I am basing my opinion on past experience. I used to be in the jewelry manufacturing business for many years and slowly watched the industry shifting abroad. Now all the shops are gone. It took them a while to get quality up to par but they did. Now unless you are a small time manufacturer you have no choice but to make the jewelry abroad. I unfortunately see the same thing happen. The made in America loyalty will only go so far and then people will say I am buying from an American company but it is made in China or Taiwan, Why not just get it from the foreign. If you watch the knife reviewers they have broken down an started giving high marks for quality and price. Don't for one second think that that this does not have a profound effect on the knife market. When I say "get their act together I am referring to companies such as Benchmade who's QC has been a disaster for the last few years but their prices are so high for what you get that it should be a knife that you don't think twice about buying, Unfortunately this is no longer the case. Everything in the real world boils down to Value for your dollar.
You go to McDonald's and you get the exact quality that you expect for the money but when you go to an expensive restaurant where Entrees start at $30 you have much higher expectations. The same goes for any business. If you look around you their are dozens of categories of business's that have gone abroad to survive. I try and buy American as much as possible but it becomes more and more difficult as time goes forward. I just bought a ZT 0452 and a 0562, both knives that I have wanted for a long time. The 0452 that everybody has been touting as the most incredible action has had to go back twice and it is there now. This not the only example that I have, My Spyderco Advocate and Southard had to go back because of an inherent problem with the washer's being to thin. You would think that they would have addressed this issue long ago but that is not the case. My Mannix's of which I own 5, I love the knives but I put up with the fact that the spring are too strong and needs 2 fingers and some strength to close that makes it not a fun knife to flick. I called Spyderco a few month's back and their solution was that the knife is to Spec and that it was designed to be closed with two hands. Not quite the answer I expected. It seems that other companies such as Benchmade and Ganzo have managed to make a similar lock that doesn't hurt you fingers. What's up with that. I had a recent problem with a Knife from Kizer and without asking 40 questions they said send it to us and we will send you a new one. The office was not in China it was in California. I had it in two weeks, Spyderco 6 to 8 weeks. The last hurdle that most of them need to address is to have a good warranty departments and that is the last nail in the coffin. By the way I have Taiwanese and Japanese Spyderco's and have not have any problems them ever.
I am sure that after reading what I wrote here you think of me as a pessimist but I prefer the term realist because it is happening now and pretty soon it won't be a roll of the dice. I have about ten Chinese knives and except for the Kizer they were all great out of the box. If you buy it from reputable companies which have all been reviewed your roll of dice is no more luck than from an American manufacturer's USA made knives.
 
Lapedog said:
This is a touchy subject.

Sometimes these shops do go legit and put out their own models.

Shirogorov and CKF knives are made in China and assembled in Russia. Kevin John knives makes the CKF knives, or atleast does work for them. The Chinese market is a real wild west story.
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And what proof do you have to show that Shirogorov is actually a Chinese brand?
 
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HowAmI said:
And what proof do you have to show that Shirogorov is actually a Chinese brand?
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Probably none, as Shirogorov knives are in fact made in Yaroslavl, Russia.
CKF is a different story and they don't really hide it.
Judging by their popularity and quality of their knives - they shouldn't.
 
AtechReviews said:
Probably none, as Shirogorov knives are in fact made in Yaroslavl, Russia.
CKF is a different story and they don't really hide it.
Judging by their popularity and quality of their knives - they shouldn't.
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I know that was just trying to shut the troll up.
 
Shirorov knives are assembled in Russia, but alot of the production is through chinese producers. There's nothing wrong with that, obviously the work speaks for its self.

Atleast thay's the story. I have no actual proof, to be perfectly honest I've just heard it a bunch of times and am now repeating it to you.
 
Personally I avoid anything made in China if I can. As someone else said I avoid feeding the beast, but how others spend their money is up to them. Me I will buy American first always then check other foreign reputable knife makers next those that I can research accurately.
 
If they are not doing yet I am sure that they will be doing it soon. Even at their prices they will have to do it. It is inevitable that one of them will do it and the rest will have to follow suit. Except for a few companies such as Benchmade and ZT. ZT has the advantage because Kai the mother company also owns Kershaw who make most of their knives in China and we need to remember that even though ZT is made here it is actually owned by a Japanese company. It's sort of like Nissan and Infinity.
 
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