Greg Goeckel of Quest Knives won't stand behind his product!

[choombak]

Long story short, three small skinners I purchased from Quest Knives had sub par (micro chipped) edges, and peeling powder coating (photos below). When contacted, the only thing offered was a statement - "The knives were hand sharpened to my best abilities." No offer to resharpen, or any partial refunds, or even a simple apology. I won't do business again with Mr. Greg Goeckel of Quest Knives, and the entire transaction has left a sour taste in my mouth. :thumbdn:

So these small skinners were offered by Greg Goeckel of Quest Knives for sale in the knifemakers marketplace. Three of my friends in India also liked the blade, so I decided to put an order for 3 knives, which I would then ship to India. I paid in full $150, and the knives were received about 10 days later. When I inspected them, I noticed the edges looked weak, and a bit non-uniform. However, my buddies in India do sharpen their knives (just like I do), so I did not worry much and shipped them over to India. The knives were properly packaged, and shipped Registered, and were delivered intact in about 3 weeks. However, when folks opened them, they noticed the edges visibly uneven, mostly due to the tight fitting sheath (?). They also noticed the powder coat was peeling and flaky. One of my friend sent a polite note to the maker, Greg, about his disappointment with the poor "fit and finish" of the knife. He also mentioned his disappointment was aggravated by the fact that the knife cost approximately $75 each adding shipping, paypal fees, and customs duty. My friend closed the email with this statement: "you may want to ensure that you do not ruin the ergonomics of a wonderful knife with such a poor finish.". The only response he received was: "Thx for your feedback. I will continue to build custom knives the best my hands can achieve.".

This response was completely unexpected from a new knife maker who is working on perfecting his skills. I have worked with several makers, and when I send in a poor fit and finish complaint, I get a guaranteed response to get the issues fixed or sorted out in some way. My friends were okay to take up the loss, but I felt odd, and decided to write to the maker. In my mail I asked him to let me know why the edges were poor, my disappointment, and also requested him a partial refund (I was blunt at this point, as I felt the maker was skirting his responsibilities somehow - there was not even an offer of re-sharpening assuming I could have got the knives back to the US somehow, or even a simple apology). And besides, $ converted to Indian Rupee is a lot of money for someone to spend on a poor knife (~1:60 ratio).

In his response, he said I should have returned back the knives before shipping to India if I wasn't happy. Well, back then, I did find the edge to be weak, but acceptable. And that was not the point I was trying to make anyways. He went on tell me how each knife has cost him $65, and how he has lost money by selling it to me for $50, and how he thought he was doing service to knife enthusiasts by giving us a special price. It goes without saying he flatly refused to refund any amount. The icing on the cake was his saying how me and my group had hassled him and cost him time. I obviously responded telling him flatly that "best of abilities" was a bad excuse to cover for poor fit and finish, as well as non-existent customer service, and that he won't be seeing any business from me again. I also added I would put this out on bladeforums, and send him a link so he can choose to respond/clarify. His bladeforums username is "Quest Knives".

Definitely Quest Knives won't see business from me ever again. I am putting it out for the bladeforums community to see and make well informed choice.

Poor edge

There is some residue on the edge as a result of chipping. I feel the tight fitting sheath, and poor edge contributed the micro chips...

Peeling power coat

 

[Yo Mama]

Yikes, looks pretty poor to me. I wouldn't pay 10 bucks for it, looks like he spray painted it.

 

[willythekid]

As I see it, you paid $150 for 3 custom knives which is a steal in itself considering what goes into making a knife. You then deemed them good enough to ship to your friends in India. If you had a problem with these knives you should have dealt with it as soon as they were received. I can see how this maker acted in the way he did... I'm sure he wanted to tell you to go pound sand. I would love to hear Quest Knives side of this story.

 

[choombak]

As I see it, you paid $150 for 3 custom knives which is a steal in itself considering what goes into making a knife. You then deemed them good enough to ship to your friends in India. If you had a problem with these knives you should have dealt with it as soon as they were received. I can see how this maker acted in the way he did... I'm sure he wanted to tell you to go pound sand. I would love to hear Quest Knives side of this story.

Definitely. I have sent him the link to this thread, and hopefully he should let us know his side of the story as well.

 

[Karda]

Long story short, three small skinners I purchased from Quest Knives had sub par (micro chipped) edges, and peeling powder coating (photos below). When contacted, the only thing offered was a statement - "The knives were hand sharpened to my best abilities." No offer to resharpen, or any partial refunds, or even a simple apology. I won't do business again with Mr. Greg Goeckel of Quest Knives, and the entire transaction has left a sour taste in my mouth. :thumbdn:

So these small skinners were offered by Greg Goeckel of Quest Knives for sale in the knifemakers marketplace. Three of my friends in India also liked the blade, so I decided to put an order for 3 knives, which I would then ship to India. I paid in full $150, and the knives were received about 10 days later. When I inspected them, I noticed the edges looked weak, and a bit non-uniform. However, my buddies in India do sharpen their knives (just like I do), so I did not worry much and shipped them over to India. The knives were properly packaged, and shipped Registered, and were delivered intact in about 3 weeks. However, when folks opened them, they noticed the edges visibly uneven, mostly due to the tight fitting sheath (?). They also noticed the powder coat was peeling and flaky. One of my friend sent a polite note to the maker, Greg, about his disappointment with the poor "fit and finish" of the knife. He also mentioned his disappointment was aggravated by the fact that the knife cost approximately $75 each adding shipping, paypal fees, and customs duty. My friend closed the email with this statement: "you may want to ensure that you do not ruin the ergonomics of a wonderful knife with such a poor finish.". The only response he received was: "Thx for your feedback. I will continue to build custom knives the best my hands can achieve.".

This response was completely unexpected from a new knife maker who is working on perfecting his skills. I have worked with several makers, and when I send in a poor fit and finish complaint, I get a guaranteed response to get the issues fixed or sorted out in some way. My friends were okay to take up the loss, but I felt odd, and decided to write to the maker. In my mail I asked him to let me know why the edges were poor, my disappointment, and also requested him a partial refund (I was blunt at this point, as I felt the maker was skirting his responsibilities somehow - there was not even an offer of re-sharpening assuming I could have got the knives back to the US somehow, or even a simple apology). And besides, $ converted to Indian Rupee is a lot of money for someone to spend on a poor knife (~1:60 ratio).

In his response, he said I should have returned back the knives before shipping to India if I wasn't happy. Well, back then, I did find the edge to be weak, but acceptable. And that was not the point I was trying to make anyways. He went on tell me how each knife has cost him $65, and how he has lost money by selling it to me for $50, and how he thought he was doing service to knife enthusiasts by giving us a special price. It goes without saying he flatly refused to refund any amount. The icing on the cake was his saying how me and my group had hassled him and cost him time. I obviously responded telling him flatly that "best of abilities" was a bad excuse to cover for poor fit and finish, as well as non-existent customer service, and that he won't be seeing any business from me again. I also added I would put this out on bladeforums, and send him a link so he can choose to respond/clarify. His bladeforums username is "Quest Knives".

Definitely Quest Knives won't see business from me ever again. I am putting it out for the bladeforums community to see and make well informed choice.

Once you took possession of the knives and deemed them weak but acceptable, what else do you expect a maker to do for you?
You thought the knives were good enough then to send to your friends.

The proper time to voice concerns over quality is upon receipt.

 

[choombak]

Once you took possession of the knives and deemed them weak but acceptable, what else do you expect a maker to do for you?
You thought the knives were good enough then to send to your friends.

The proper time to voice concerns over quality is upon receipt.

The concerns have been raised immediately upon receipt - by the end users who are supposed to use the knives. My friend mailed the maker directly (before me), and received "sharpen to the best of my abilities" response. That's it.

The knives did not have visible chipped edges, nor the powder coat was peeling when I received them. At a bare minimum, I expected an offer to re-sharpen and get the edge fixed, not a "I do it to the best of my abilities". As I said, he won't stand behind his product, and that's the only point I was trying to make.

 

[RevDevil]

The cost of sharpening a knife yourself, especially if it is to be used is free and immediate. Rather than paying for shipping and potentially a longer wait time due to holidays, etc. It would be unreasonable in this scenario. Just my thoughts. Personally, I'd have scrapped the remaining "red coating" off that thing anyhow. It will flake off during use eventually. The only coatings. I've found to be super tough are whatever Bussekin knives use as well as ESEE, and other production/semi custom makers.

 

[troutfisher13111]

I don't see how the sheaths that come with his knives could cause that kind of edge damage. Something seems a little off.

 

[richard j]

I don't see how the sheaths that come with his knives could cause that kind of edge damage. Something seems a little off.

they were kydex which will actually dull a knife if it fits poorly and too tight.

 

[Burke]

Feels to me like the OP is more in the wrong than Quest Knives here. Hard to really pass judgment on the edges from pictures but I agree they don't look good.

In the end the OP should have addressed any quality concerns with his friends and then the maker - "do you find this acceptable?" - before sending overseas. OP DID find them acceptable, his friends do not. In essence his friends bought knives on the secondary market that were not as desired and their quarrel should be with the OP.

My feeling is that the pricing etc issues exacerbated by the shipping to India and the exchange rate are irrelevant to the conversation.

 

[troutfisher13111]

they were kydex which will actually dull a knife if it fits poorly and too tight.

True, but will it actually chip a edge that bad?

 

[richard j]

its possible if there was something not done right with the heat treat but without seeing the knife, its hard to say.

 

[RevDevil]

True, but will it actually chip a edge that bad?

None of the kydex sheathes i own hVe ever done that to a knife edge, no matter how thin the edge was.

 

[RevDevil]

True, but will it actually chip a edge that bad?

None of the kydex sheathes i own hVe ever done that to a knife edge, no matter how thin the edge was.

I sent Greg a link to this thread so he could offer his opinion on the topic. When things like this come up, they are opportunities to potentially earn many customers depending on the resolution.

 

[Quest Knives]

I have been struggling to respond to this post. As you can imagine it was very upsetting. I think the comments from everyone, which I really appreciate, pretty much tell the tale.

The bottom line is that is she has such huge issues with the knives, why did she send them to India? If they were not damaged in shipping, why not take photos of the packages? I'm not even sure what to believe, but I don't want to throw mud. Frankly some of my knifes are overseas with members of our military the have that same design, powder coat, and sheath and they like my knives and use them.

I value my customers because I couldn't be doing this without them. All of my customers minus this one is extremely happy with me and my knives and buy more once they get their first, so I sleep fine at night, although if i was honest this situation did upset me for some time. Again I really appreciate the comments from the other member to this thread. Bottom line -- I do not agree with this customer and their opinion, but especially, their side of the story.

 

[jac_solar]

You received the knives, sent them to your friends, and then asked for some money-refund, without returning the knives or anything?

assuming I could have got the knives back to the US somehow

he flatly refused to refund any amount

You also said this..

I obviously responded telling him flatly that "best of abilities" was a bad excuse to cover for poor fit and finish, as well as non-existent customer service

You and your friends e-mailed him, talking about the fit and finishes, and he thanked you for your feedback. Since it doesn't sound like returning the knives even entered the discussion, what did you expect him to do? What knife maker or company can afford to just take the word of someone (I'm not saying you're lying -- but other people might be.)?

 

[choombak]

You received the knives, sent them to your friends, and then asked for some money-refund, without returning the knives or anything?

Sending the knives back from India to the US is difficult.

The response by the maker to my friend was interpreted something like this: "Thanks, I will improve in my future knives, but as of now you are stuck with the poor fit and finish, and I can't do anything about it, even though I am the maker". Our interpretation can be wrong? Sure, I do not discount that fact, but I was not happy. Every maker I have worked with has immediately offered to fix any issue (irrespective of going into the causes), and sometimes for a charge. So our expectations about the maker standing behind the knives were mismatched here. Additionally, the maker did not give us even a single $ discount when I was working on a price, though he combined shipping for three knives. If someone sells $50 a piece including shipping on bladeforums, and I order 3, most likely there is a $4-$6 discount offered (this was partially the reason why I bluntly requested a partial refund).

You and your friends e-mailed him, talking about the fit and finishes, and he thanked you for your feedback. Since it doesn't sound like returning the knives even entered the discussion, what did you expect him to do? What knife maker or company can afford to just take the word of someone (I'm not saying you're lying -- but other people might be.)?

We decided to see if an acceptable solution can be worked out before trying to undo the transaction (and as I said earlier it is difficult to send knives back from India to the US). The knifemaker did not have to take the word, my friend sent him the photos (that are posted in this thread) as soon as the knife package was opened. I know my friend is not lying since I received the same photos on the day the tracking showed the delivered status.

I expected him to offer for fixing the knife. That's all. It can be as simple as "if you can manage to send back the knives to me, I will take a look at them and see what's wrong. I will try and fix them if possible". I do not think my expectation was unreasonable. A few years ago, I purchased a Delica through knifecenter, and had it shipped to my friend in the US who brought it to me in India. Upon receipt I noticed they had sent me an Endura instead of a Delica. So I contacted KC. They said they would happily exchange the knife on their dime, if I could get it to them in the US.

A knifemaker does not have to take word of someone, but as a business owner there is no reason to assume buyers are lying when they have provided photos, feedback, and have put the ball in the maker's court.

 

[choombak]

I have been struggling to respond to this post. As you can imagine it was very upsetting. I think the comments from everyone, which I really appreciate, pretty much tell the tale.

The bottom line is that is she has such huge issues with the knives, why did she send them to India? If they were not damaged in shipping, why not take photos of the packages? I'm not even sure what to believe, but I don't want to throw mud. Frankly some of my knifes are overseas with members of our military the have that same design, powder coat, and sheath and they like my knives and use them.

Assume for a moment, I am a knife-noobie and understand nothing about knives. All I did was had them ship to me, and re-mail them to my friends in India. They contacted you immediately upon receipt with photos. You essentially gave them a cold shoulder. They are your customers, not me (I haven't seen your policy stating only the original purchase is covered). As for shipping damage, if you want proof for everything, I will be more than happy to request my friend to provide the package photo if they have it, I will also provide you the tracking details that can be matched with the timestamps of the photos taken so you have the delta.

Your other overseas customers who like your knives are not relevant to this discussion, so let's not drag their testimonials here.

I value my customers because I couldn't be doing this without them. All of my customers minus this one is extremely happy with me and my knives and buy more once they get their first, so I sleep fine at night, although if i was honest this situation did upset me for some time. Again I really appreciate the comments from the other member to this thread. Bottom line -- I do not agree with this customer and their opinion, but especially, their side of the story.

Other way of saying I am lying. Unfortunate. And I do not agree.

Your version 2 of the knife was made based on my immediate feedback. I have an email to that effect from you. From what I understand my friends have version 1, and version 2 typically is an improvement over something.

All we expected from you was an offer to make things right (we started with an expectation of fixing the issues in the knife), which never came. So as I said, I stand by my statement, you do not care for your customers, nor you stand behind your product. Good luck, and I won't be doing business with you.

 

[choombak]

I have been struggling to respond to this post. As you can imagine it was very upsetting. I think the comments from everyone, which I really appreciate, pretty much tell the tale.

The bottom line is that is she has such huge issues with the knives, why did she send them to India? If they were not damaged in shipping, why not take photos of the packages? I'm not even sure what to believe, but I don't want to throw mud. Frankly some of my knifes are overseas with members of our military the have that same design, powder coat, and sheath and they like my knives and use them.

I value my customers because I couldn't be doing this without them. All of my customers minus this one is extremely happy with me and my knives and buy more once they get their first, so I sleep fine at night, although if i was honest this situation did upset me for some time. Again I really appreciate the comments from the other member to this thread. Bottom line -- I do not agree with this customer and their opinion, but especially, their side of the story.

None of the events change the fact about poor fit and finish on the knives my friends have, and that you offered nothing in way of addressing the issues. That was the whole point of this thread - you won't stand behind your products.

And so far nothing has been offered that makes me revisit my feedback, so I stand by what I said earlier.

Thank you everyone who participated in the thread and offered their views.

 

[jac_solar]

Sending the knives back from India to the US is difficult.

The response by the maker to my friend was interpreted something like this: "Thanks, I will improve in my future knives, but as of now you are stuck with the poor fit and finish, and I can't do anything about it, even though I am the maker". Our interpretation can be wrong? Sure, I do not discount that fact, but I was not happy. Every maker I have worked with has immediately offered to fix any issue (irrespective of going into the causes), and sometimes for a charge. So our expectations about the maker standing behind the knives were mismatched here. Additionally, the maker did not give us even a single $ discount when I was working on a price, though he combined shipping for three knives. If someone sells $50 a piece including shipping on bladeforums, and I order 3, most likely there is a $4-$6 discount offered (this was partially the reason why I bluntly requested a partial refund).



We decided to see if an acceptable solution can be worked out before trying to undo the transaction (and as I said earlier it is difficult to send knives back from India to the US). The knifemaker did not have to take the word, my friend sent him the photos (that are posted in this thread) as soon as the knife package was opened. I know my friend is not lying since I received the same photos on the day the tracking showed the delivered status.

I expected him to offer for fixing the knife. That's all. It can be as simple as "if you can manage to send back the knives to me, I will take a look at them and see what's wrong. I will try and fix them if possible". I do not think my expectation was unreasonable. A few years ago, I purchased a Delica through knifecenter, and had it shipped to my friend in the US who brought it to me in India. Upon receipt I noticed they had sent me an Endura instead of a Delica. So I contacted KC. They said they would happily exchange the knife on their dime, if I could get it to them in the US.

A knifemaker does not have to take word of someone, but as a business owner there is no reason to assume buyers are lying when they have provided photos, feedback, and have put the ball in the maker's court.

Ok, I think I get it. All though, pictures, and knives can be manipulated - maybe the custom maker thought that you, or your friends, had messed with the knives in an attempt to get some money out of it. I'm not saying that's the case, just that it's something he might have thought.

In any case, I think you should have asked, or even demanded, some sort of refund, or knife repair, before going public. But you also stated that you looked at the knives and deemed them worthy to ship to your friends in India, which makes this sound a bit weird.

While I agree that he should have offered a refund or at least offered to fix the knives, if you had asked, and he refused, then, I think, the responses to this thread would have been completely different. As it is, it seems like both parties made some possibly incorrect assumptions. (Ie; You assumed that he didn't care, and didn't want to fix the knives, while he assumed that you didn't want to send the knives back, and merely offered some feedback.). Not saying this is how it is, just an impression.