Griffith Knives review is FINISHED!

[Cliff Stamp]

Lynn, this forum is not a place for you to voice your opinion of Chiro as a person regardless of what he has said or done. While this review raised questions about various aspects of your knives which you should deal with. You need to restrict the content to the relevant facts about your knives and your policies not your opinion about the kind of person the reviewer may be. That is just not going to generate productive discussion. Please take the time to remove such content from the above posts.

The only relevant personal issues that should be discussed about the reviewer is possibly their ability to evaluate a knife. However for the most part this is difficult as most people will get very defensive and then counter attack. It is much better to point out a simple counter example than attack the reviewer. The latter does nothing except make you look bad and actually give the reviewer support.

For example, I have had bad experience with Ontarios machetes. Someone who wished to argue that they were actually decent could simply point out that Jeff Randall has a very positive opinion of them and he is obviously qualified to make a sound judgement. Let the reader maker up their mind after seeing what Jeff and I have to say.

-Cliff

 

[Lynn Grififth Knives]

Cliff,
I feel that Chiro's bias against my knives before the review, and the fact that I would not give him free stuff (after the constant asking for it) to be very relevant to whether he could (or wourld) write an honest review about my knives.
I may be wrong about Chiro's character being relevant, but I don't feel that I am.

Respectfully,

------------------
Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum

 

[Chiro75]

Originally posted by Lynn Grififth Knives:
I did not want to respond to this review. After Chiro posting in several different places, and on other knife lists I feel that he has left me know choice.[/b

I always post notifications about my reviews on several forums. Usually I hit two forums here on BF, I go to Knifeforums, and I sometimes post the review on Hood's Wood's forum, too.

This review is written to appear like Chiro had no opinion of me, or my knives before he wrote the review. I myself, would believe that, if I hadn't corresponded with Chiro many times over the past 8 or 9 months (in which time he continually asked for free knives, free services, and free materials).

In all fairness this is sort of an untruth. I emailed Lynn one time to see if he was interested in submitting a knife for a review. It was one of his $55 MNK's. He said no, so I said okay. When he was blowing out the MNK's a few months later I was close to finishing up my small knife review that a bunch of you have read and responded to, so I asked a second time if he was interested. Again, he said no, so I said that's fine. At no time was the word "free" ever discussed, nor did we ever get far enough in the email to one another to discuss whether the knife would be returned or not. I have reviewed several knives that I have used and returned to the maker, and others the maker lets me keep for further use and testing. I'm not real sure what free "services" I could possibly have asked for, nor what materials I may have contacted him for! That's news to me! I have plenty of Micarta sitting on my own workbench.

Below are quotes from postings that Chiro made recently on BladeForums (before recieving the knives in this review). Based on these, I do not know how anyone could believe that he had no bias before writing this review.

Lynn, you yourself emailed me at least three or four times before I wrote my review to make sure I remembered we were "friends" and on what good terms we were standing! You also gave your blessing to the fellow that sent the knives saying that you were sure I would write a review that is free of bias and is fair to you! Since those were private emails I can't post them here without your permission, but if you'd like me to return them to you to jog your memory on the facts then I would be glad to! Just let me know.

"I have only seen one of Lynn's knives up close and personal. It is actually sort of a variant on his SUB series, and it was made to a Bladeforums member's specs. Essentially it keeps the tiny 2" blade and simply adds a longer handle. I can't remember what he paid for it, but it was a lot. I would take one of Sean Perkins little knives over it anyday, and still have beer money leftover! "

I guess you would love to be able to censor my opinions, but sorry, you can't! Why don't you finish the quote off with the compliments that I gave that knife? I remember stating that it was well made, had a nice sheath, and a really well-done handle! Your problem is that you have fixated on the negatives and totally ignored the positive praises I have given your knives. And by posting what I have written out of context you are trying to paint a false picture. I don't think that particular knife was worth the price tag. The owner disagreed, so why do you even care?

"I agree that Lynn's knives are very overpriced, but he has a rabid following and that's what counts, I guess."

Again, my opinion on your pricing. That is hardly a bias on your knives.

"Lynn also seems to be a pretty honest businessman and he stands behind his work, so kudos there, too. I think that maybe his buyers may be a little uninformed, and the pricing is off quite a bit, but that's why I'm not a customer!"

You seem to be fixating on what I think of your pricing. That's not a critique of your knives at all! The fact that I actually like your knives seems to be lost of you. My review was very positive in your favor with the exception of two things:
1) Warped blades and
2) Pricing.
If you sell as many knives as quickly as you say you do, and I have no reason to disbelieve you on that point, then my opinion of your pricing is pretty meaningless. That's also why it comes at the end of the review and takes up all of about one paragraph out of a three page review! There's nothing I can do to change stating the facts about warped blades, but that is what a review is for, to look at the details.

As per most of Chiro's comments in his review, I can probably agree. I however doubt very much his statements about the blades being warped.

Now you are calling me a liar. Lovely. I suppose what will need to be done is have the original owner report on the warps and hope he tells the truth. If he doesn't, then we'll have to send them to some other people to see what they have to say. I think it really stinks that I worked my ass off to write a review that is mainly positive and in your favor and your response is to call me a liar! The warps are there, clear as day, and they are extrememly noticeable if you sight down the long axis of the blade. I can't change that, and I don't have the time to watse by trying to lie about your damn knives. Four knives were sent. All four are warped. One is questionable, as stated in the review, the other three are clear as day. Lying about it would result in my reputation being ruined because you would send the knives to a bunch of folks who would all say "these aren't warped". I have MUCh better things to do right now than make crap up about your knives!

I am human, so had he said one was, I may have believed that. I do not for a minute believe that all four are. Since he mentioned all four were, I highly doubt that any of them were.

Thanks. Now that you have assumed I am a liar, how are you going to prove it? I surely won't take your word for it over mine. Send the knives to Spark and Mike and see what they think. The damn things are either warped or I am suffering from some sort of rare organic brain disease.

You have stated that you would never purchase a knife for more than $100 (although I know you purchased a knife for $125 or so after that statement).

That was a special knife made by Madpoet, and I resent your throwing it in my face like that. That knife was also WORTH $125, so I felt fine buying it. I also made several sheaths to pay for it when I needed to be seeing patients and packing my house up to move. It is rare that I buy a knife for more than $75, in fact, but when the opportunity arises to add to my collection a knife made by a friend who is no longer here, then I make exceptions. I doubt you can understand that.

For that reason, I do not consider your reviewing knives that start at over that price point appropriate.

Whatever. It doesn't take any special skills to be able to evaluate a knife. I have many knives that retail for more than the ones you sent me! That doesn't mean I bought them all new at the full price! A knife is a piece of steel with some handle scales attached to it. The pricing is a judgment call. I think yours are overpriced compared to what I own in my own collection and what I have seen in other's. That's my opinion, you can make whatever you want out of it. I think anyone who reads the review will see that I am more than qualified to look at your knives and state the facts! Or do I have to get a degree from Lynn Griffith College to do so?

Also please consider the fact that your review is essentially telling people not to employ my services. Imagine your dispair if someone said the same to your employer about you.

That isn't what my review says at all. Do you understand that all human beings have opinions? When I state my opinions people read them and say "I agree" or they state their own differing opinion and we hash it out. That's what people in free societies do. You kissed my ass for two weeks leading up to my review, then you threw a tantrum when I published it. I also gave you several opportunities to read the review and react to what I had written. If you would have done so then the outcome probably would have changed dramatically based on your explanations of what I found. Instead you chose to ban me from your forums and play games, so I published the review as-is. It was your choice and, frankly, you made the wrong one, but you can't say that I didn't give you plenty of chances to say your peace BEFORE I let the review go public. So, the bottom line is that you think I am a liar, and you also think I am unqualified to review a knife because I don't make a habit of buying overpriced ones. Go figure. I can't wait to see how you are going to back up your rather serious accusations, but the results will be fun to watch, I am sure.



------------------
My Knife & Sheath Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
Sheath Makers Referral Directory
chiro75@yahoo.com
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 

[Strider]

Cliff
With all due respects I do not know Mr Griffith have never held or seen one of his knives up close and have never visited his forum. I can understand his frustration though. When a mans livelyhood is threatened by what he precieves as one persons bias then human nature would naturally take over and one would want to try and paint the larger picture of Mr Griffiths dealings over the past months with Chiro. Its no secret about Chiros sponging and one only has to read past posts to confirm this. The internet can be a very uneven and diabolical media to deal with when limitations are placed on one side and none on the other. As I said I see where you are coming from but by going over past threads dealing with this issue it seems that the vast majority of postings are biased towards Mr Griffith and he like myself would do in a similar situation is only trying to convey the words that are not written in any review of his work.
Bob

 

[Chiro75]

Originally posted by Lynn Grififth Knives:
While I am at it, I would like to note that I sold 13 knives (all I took) on the first day of Blade show. There was not a single complaint from any of these customers about price or quality.

In fairness to Lynn (it'd be nice if he reciprocated), Neil Blackwood stated that he hung out at their table for some time and saw nothing wrong with the knives. He did not state how he inspected them, though, but as a knifemaker and a generally all-around great guy, Neil's opinion means quite a bit to me at least. I'd love to be able to say that I was incorrect about the warps in the blades I was sent, but I know what I saw and I looked for a LONG time and from every conceivable angle and they were there.

Also I would like to note that Chiro waited until he though I had left for Blade Show to post this review.

This is an absolute lie. I finished the review almost a week before the show, and I emailed Lynn to look over the first draft. I heard back from the owen of the knives, whom I did NOT invite to read the review, and he stated that Lynn was unhappy with the conclusion. I re-read it and made some changes, editing a lot of what I had written, and re-emailed them both saying that the next draft was done. I waited a couple days, emailed Lynn and asked him if he was going to discuss anything I found, and he said that he was leaving for the Blade show. Lynn, you are totally lying about the timing of the review. You are trying to make me out to be some sort of a jerk, and what you are really doing is getting yourself caught up in misrepresentations that are going to end up biting you in the butt! Just be honest and quit trying to pin this on me! Sheesh.

Chiro states above that I was angry. Below is a cut and past of the only E-mail I ever sent to Chiro after seeing this review

Not including the ones that were communicated to me through his friend that I received several days earlier! Convenient!

As for banning Chiro from my forums I did, and have 12 different times over the past few months. Each time I forgave his attitude, and let him back on. In hindsight I should never unbanned him. Any knifemaker that has had dealing with him knows that he attentioned starved, and is a free loader who constantly tries to get free stuff frm others.

This isn't even worth a remark from me. I'd love to show you your emails leading up to my review, Lynn! I also love the fact that you deleted one of my messages about j-clips, then a week later you were selling them to your customers! You are trying to paint a picture of me that is absolutely false. You are starting to get caught up in your own lies, and I can't help that. The bottom line is that you are unhappy about the review because it does not paint a 100% beautiful picture of your work. You have censored reviews in the past that have done the same. When you "allowed" me back into your forums, it was ALWAYS you approaching ME to let me back in. I could care less about being a member there! Now you are trying to make an attempt at character defamation by calling me a liar and a freeloader. You have serious problems with your ethical system, Lynn. Also, instead of letting the discussion focus on your KNIVES, it came back, as usual, to your character. Why is that? This thread will be locked soon, so I'm glad I got my two cents in. I guess you're right, I DID spend hours and hours of precious time just to try and sneak one negative paragraph in about you!

------------------
My Knife & Sheath Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
Sheath Makers Referral Directory
chiro75@yahoo.com
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 

[Gary W. Graley]

Things I've learned

I've learned that I like my teacher because she cries
when we sing "Silent Night".......
Age 6

I've learned that our dog doesn't want to eat my broccoli either.
Age 7

I've learned that when I wave to people in the
country, they stop what they are doing and wave back.
Age 9

I've learned that just when I get my room the way I
like it, Mom makes me clean it up again.
Age 12

I've learned that if you want to cheer yourself up,
you should try cheering someone else up.
Age 14

I've learned that although it's hard to admit it, I'm
secretly glad my parents are strict with me.
Age 15

I've learned that silent company is often more healing
than words of advice.
Age 24

I've learned that brushing my child's hair is one of
life's great pleasures.
Age 26

I've learned that wherever I go, the world's worst
drivers have followed me there.
Age 29

I've learned that if someone says something unkind
about me, I must live so that no one will believe it.
Age 39

I've learned that there are people who love you dearly
but just don't know how to show it.
Age 42

I've learned that you can make someone's day by
simply sending them a little note.
Age 44

I've learned that the greater a person's sense of
guilt, the greater his or her need to cast blame on others.
Age 46

I've learned that children and grandparents are
natural allies.
Age 47

I've learned that no matter what happens, or how bad
it seems today, life does go on, and it will be better tomorrow.
Age 48

I've learned that singing "Amazing Grace" can lift my
spirits for hours.
Age 49

I've learned that you can tell a lot about a man by
the way he handles these three things: a rainy day, lost
luggage, and tangled Christmas tree lights.
Age 50

I've learned that keeping a vegetable garden is worth
a medicine cabinet full of pills.
Age 52

I've learned that regardless of your relationship with
your parents, you miss them terribly after they die.
Age 53

I've learned that making a living is not the same
thing as making a life.
Age 58

I've learned that if you want to do something positive
for your children, work to improve your marriage.
Age 61

I've learned that life sometimes gives you a second chance.
Age 62

I've learned that you shouldn't go through life with a catchers
mitt on both hands. You need to be able to throw something back.
Age 64

I've learned that if you pursue happiness, it will elude you.
But if you focus on your family, the needs of others, your work,
meeting new people, and doing the very best you can, happiness
will find you.
Age 65

I've learned that whenever I decide something with kindness,
I usually make the right decision.
Age 66

I've learned that everyone can use a prayer.
Age 72

I've learned that it pays to believe in miracles.
And to tell the truth, I've seen several.
Age 75

I've learned that even when I have pains, I don't have to be one.
Age 82

I've learned that every day you should reach out and touch someone.
People love that human touch - holding hands, a warm hug, or just a friendly pat on the back.
Age 85

I've learned that I still have a lot to learn.
Age 92

G2

[This message has been edited by Gary W. Graley (edited 06-08-2000).]

 

[Lynn Grififth Knives]

Gary,
Great post.

Chiro,
You don't care for me. That is ok. Can we kill this thing before either of us says any thing more cruel, to or about one another? I don't mean just kill it here, but no more posts regarding the other anywhere. Lets live and let live. What is done is done, what has been said has been said. That is only in the past, unless we drag it into the future.

Potential Customers who's confidence on purchasing my knives may have been swayed by this review:

Please read this excerpt from the letter that goes out with every knife I ship.

Quote:
Customer Satisfaction
If your new knife does not meet your expectations, call me immediately at 918-322-5416. If for any reason you
are unsatisfied, you may return it to me (unused) for a full refund less shipping. There does not have to be
anything physically wrong with the knife. If the size, feel, shape or anything else does not suit you, then you may
return or exchange it. You must call first, and the return must be made with in 5 days. Do not cut anything with
it, if you plan to return it. If you would rather do something other then a return, please discuss it with me. I have
many happy customers across the globe. I want you to be just as happy with your purchase. If you are happy with
your knife, please let me know that too. I love all feed back, good or bad.


Peace,



------------------
Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Griffith Knives Forum

 

[Chiro75]

Lynn, it's fine by me. It's not that I don't care for you. I don't even know you. I don't care for what you have attempted to do to me to keep the attention from yourself. You have called me a liar and that is a huge insult. Maybe the owner will comment about what he finds. If not, then I could care less. Keep making your knives and keep selling them for whatever you want to sell them for. I never said you couldn't, Lynn. I have more important things to do than bitch with you, so as far as I'm concerned if I never have to read this thread again then that's fine by me.

------------------
My Knife & Sheath Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
Sheath Makers Referral Directory
chiro75@yahoo.com
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html

 

[Jerry Hossom]

Age 94.

You might forget what you had for breakfast, but if you forget these lessons, it's OK to start over...

Thanks Gary. Those are marvelous thoughts and so very true. Unfortunately, like most of us I've had to learn many of them the hard way. Now I wonder why that was necessary, since Love is such a simple concept.

If this is difficult to understand, read this: http://www.hossom.com/page7.html

------------------
Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com

[This message has been edited by GaKnife (edited 06-08-2000).]