Grinder or kiln - help me make up my mind

J

jonathan creason

Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
49
For a bit of background here, I've been making knives for about 2 years now is some way, shape, or form. I've got a Craftsman 2x42 grinder (that I finally got working again), and I do my heat treating in a charcoal forge. I primarily work with 1084 steel, but do use 5160 and some recycled steel now and again. I'm stuck on a pretty limited budget (young kids, mortgage, and student loans see to that), so I only get to buy new tools every once in a while.

With all that said, I'm looking to sell my bandsaw and buy some knife equipment. I'm hoping to have a little over $400 to work with, so I'm looking at either a 110v Sugar Creek Kiln or building a NWG. At this point I'm leaning toward the kiln, because the heat treatment is the most important factor in a knife, but dang a new grinder would be nice. Do any of you guys have a strong arguement for either one?
 
i made knives for more then a few years with a 1x42 delta grinder but i had a kiln as my 2nd big spend. i did tho want to not only max out my HT but also be able to work jsut about any steel i wanted to and also not have to wait for blades sent out for HT

when i stepped into a KMG it was like a dream
with the budget that you are listing i might build the NWG cause i woudl have a hard time buying a 110v kiln 220v really is worth it in heat up speed and size i have a evenheat 18 inch and wish i woudl have got a 24 inch (if i get a 2nd one it will be 36-40 inch )
 
I'm with Lloyd - build the grinder, and get a full size HT oven when you can save up for one.
 
If it where me I would stash the money away tell you have a little more money. I have built a few grinders for friends and even if you got the steel for free and a motor on the cheap it is my opinon that it would be tuff to get a grinder built for $400.00 Maybe source all your parts you need to build it and then put those cost on paper and see where your at. I have seen a few guys just start buy the parts they need then run out of money to finish the build then they are out the cash on hand as well a incomplete grinder.
If you have any ? about building or getting parts shot me a pm

Brett
 
For heat treating you have some options to send it out to for a reasonable price. Forum member Darrin Sanders, Trugrit and Texas Knifemakers are there to heat treat your blade.
 
AVigil said:
For heat treating you have some options to send it out to for a reasonable price. Forum member Darrin Sanders, Trugrit and Texas Knifemakers are there to heat treat your blade.
Click to expand...

Gets expensive quick at around $20 per knife once you factor in shipping.
 
Get a grinder. I found that my quality and speed both increaswed with a 2x72 over my Craftsman 2x42. Since you'll be faster, you can make and sell more knives to pay for your new kiln.

Or you could build a kiln. I turned a cheap paragon pottery kiln into a knife kiln with controller for 180 total (I got the kiln at auction for 20, controller for 100, and misc parts for 60)
 
I have to agree with Brett... you don't really have enough money to complete a grinder build now. I built a GIB myself and front to back the build cost about $900++. The GIB itself only accounted for $250 of that... the rest was wheels, springs, motor, and bolts. Getting the steel free doesn't make the rest of it afforable on your budget, and I'd strongly advise against making cheap compromised choices when building this most important tool in your shop.

You'll need a Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled (TEFC) motor, you'll probably want a way to adjust the speed (which I opted not to include in my build, so it would cost even more to put that in). You'll be tempted to try to source your motor someplace cheap... and then you'll end up with something that doesn't work well, needs special power outlets installed, and so on.

At the very least do yourself a favor and map out ALL the costs. The wheels alone set me back a few hundred, and you DON'T want to try to cheap out on the wheels. You'll never get the tracking right if you do.

If you search the forum you'll find all sorts of cheap grinder build projects, and the proud owners that tell you how well they work. Review those threads and see if you want to have one of those makeshift grinders. If not, think about saving up for the real cost of the build... which, frankly, is at least twice your stated budget.
 
I agree with Greg about the price but have to say this about the motor. I have the GIB and used (and continue to use) a 2 hp pool pump that was given to me. It is not TEFC and therefore not ideal for grinding metal, but since I have it set up with pullys and belt drive, I have it to the side and away from grinding dust. I realize that it might not last for the next 10 years, but so far I've got my money out of it after 2 years.

Of course, 400 still isn't enough unless you get a coyote or grizzly grinder.

I was in your situation and got the GIB frame first, then bought wheels as I had the extra income.

Of course, if you have your heart set on a NWG frame and don't have the plans yet, then I'll give you the plans I bought a few years ago that I never used.
 
Thanks for all the input, guys. I'm thinking now that I may be better off taking a little of that money and building myself a better forge to have a little more control over the heat treat, and putting the rest of it up to save for a grinder.

I appreciate that offer, Jason. I really don't have my heart set on anything, but I knew the NWG was one way to cut at least some costs. Of course, for just a little bit more I know I could get a Pheer too, and not have to deal with any of that. I've got a buddy that works in a welding shop that was going to help me build a grinder, which was my main reason for going that route. Of course, that same buddy was supposed to be cutting some knife blanks out for me for Christmas gifts, and I still haven't seen them. Maybe that's not the best choice. ;)
 
I have read other comments that Sugar Creek is out of business, but their website is still up so check for yourself.


I would continue to outsource HT, just make in a batch so your mailing costs are spread out among 5 blades or so at a time.



I think I could build a NWG for $400 by sourcing things like the motor used and cheaply, but that also includes making up the pulleys and wheels -

(which you may not be able to do)

Keep checking Craigs list and motor repair shops for a 1HP motor - fits on a regular outlet $50 is fair.

Try finding more friends in welding or machine shops that work for beer.
It's amazing how beer is more motivating than the same amount of cash


Try the drop - cut offs section of a metal supplier - I've gotten some stuff free.

Mock up and prep everything for the grinder, clamp it up the way it should be then drop it in front of your friend to do the welds - more likely to get done.
 
Hey Jon go with the grinder. It is a much more versatile tool to have. I have a small Mig welder and can help you get it stuck together. I say it that way because I'm not that good at welding...I can make stuff stick together but it may not look that good.
 
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