Grinders - A cost comparison

H

Hypocrite

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Apr 23, 2008
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I hope that I'm not dredging up old discussions but...

I am in the market for a new 2x72 belt grinder. I want 2hp with VFD. Sounds like either the Bader BIII or the KMG.

It was mentioned on another thread (see here) that the Bader is probably the better deal if a person is purchasing the motor/VFD package.

Now I did some preliminary math (based on the prices on the Bader from Pop's), and as far as I can tell, the KMG is still less expensive... even if you buy the motor/VFD package from Beaumont.

Am I missing something?

Erin

(Chart below tries to compare apples to apples... 8" contact wheel and platent attachement)
Grinder%20Wars.jpg
 
W/o stirring up too much trouble - you can buy VFD and the motor separately, if the money is tight and spend the saved $$ on accessories etc. Depending on types of knives you make, I recommend considering the 10" wheel.

I think I got my KBAC from here:

http://www.state-electric.com/_catalog_15403/AC_Drives,_NEMA_4x

Motors can be had off ebay (watch out for shipping charges) or at your local supplier (see if you can get them to match the KBAC price and sell you both the motor and the control). Grainger is great if you can get some1 with a biz acct buy stuff for you, discounts are very good.
 
Small wheel comes with the BIII from Pop's, so you might want to factor it in. Might also note that a non-vfd model will come with two drive wheels to allow some speed change. Other than that, the everything looked OK to me.
 
have you called and priced it from Stephen Bader direct ? That is what I did , wish I got the 10" wheel over the 8". I did however opt for the combo platen that comes with a 5" contact wheel on the bottom , and just ordered a spare idle wheel. Now I have the platen and a 5" contact wheel :)

The platen came with a work rest , however for the contact wheel I had to order it separately as it wasn't included ( yes they are different on the Bader ).

I also didn't go with the Bader small wheels , instead got on from Tru-grit that uses hard core wheels , those wheels have much larger bearings than the Bader wheels.

Ordering it from Bader direct you can order exactly how you want.

Also take a look at the tiltable platen that Rob ( Beaumont ) offers for the Bader.

that all said , if I were going to do it all over again , I would have went with the KMG.
My Bader has had tracking issues from the start , and after numerous promises to send me what is needed to get it right , over 1 1/2 years later I still have issues with it , I just learned to deal with it , soon as the mill is running I will make my own replacement parts :)
 
I have both and like the Bader a little better. I know I'm out numbered here but I like the belt tenstion arm/handle Much better on the BIII.

I also find the 1.5HP DC motor on my BIII to have more torque/power than the 2HP 3ph VFD on my KMG.
 
bought my bader through jantz, a while back. got the 10'' over the 8''. great move. i

regret not getting a larger secondary wheel that was included. they offer the 2'' or 3/4''.

i didn't know you had a choice. so they gave me the 3/4''. I've been in contact with

bader directly, as i need to purchase a 4'',5'', serrated wheel, and the flat platen and

work rest. seem to be decent people to deal with. basically i love the bader, but i got a

cuz that loves his kmg. i know the kmg is a little less pricey, but it's all in what you want.
 
Don,

I guess I missed the DC motor in my analysis. I was assuming that both the Bader and the KMG were using VFDs for speed control, but it looks like the Bader actually uses a DC motor and controller. I guess the cost comparison is not exactly apples to apples.

Anyone else have any thoughts on VFD vs. DC in these two machines?

Erin

Don Hanson III said:
I have both and like the Bader a little better. I know I'm out numbered here but I like the belt tenstion arm/handle Much better on the BIII.

I also find the 1.5HP DC motor on my BIII to have more torque/power than the 2HP 3ph VFD on my KMG.
Click to expand...
 
I now have a Bader and 2 square wheels, (one of them laying on its side) 2 years ago I bought the bader with the platen, small wheel fork, 5/8" small wheel and an 8" smooth wheel, with a 1.5 H.P. DC Variable for under $2000 shipped. Couldn't be happier.
Ken
 
I think that an AC motor looses torque at lower speeds the faster the speed the higher the torqe. Where as a DC motor has about the same torque at all speeds. I could be wrong though. I do like both machines. What sold me on the Bader was the direct drive. Cap is also right about the small wheel attachment being included with the bader.
I added another small wheel set up to mine cost was: Arm-$60, adapter-$90, wheel $50. So thats a $200 freebee with the Bader.
You can't go wrong with either machine.
 
I have a VS KMG. I think that you would be happy with a KMG, Bader or Burr King. From what O hear, things start to drop off fairly quickly beyond those 3. People tell me that the current Wiltons are not the grinder that they once were. The Jancey is a well builtlt piece of gear, but pretty darn useless. I know because I own one....anyone want to buy it? lol. It has one speed.....wide open and has the "single side" disease like a Wilton.. You also cannot make any changes to the machine beyong the coupld of things that it comes with. I use it turned on it's side for roughing out wood, notching metal and thats about it. I got caught up in the uniqueness of the design and the price of an "all in one" unit when I bought it. The place where i got it also sold Burr Kings and I am regretting not buying one of them at the time. I would have saved myself a couple of thou in the long run.
 
One thing about the KMG is it is all steel, where as the Bader has an aluminum chassis. I know the KMG is much heavier.

As stated before if money is tight, for the base on the KMG you don't have to have one, but if you "need" one, you can make your own from new steel cheaply purchased from your local steel supply, A36 mild steel plate. I just made a base for mine, it cost me $55. Steel for a spare tooling arm was $19, 1018 CRS. Drill and tap your own holes.
You can also shop for the motor, controller, pulleys and save more.

The Bader comes already painted. The KMG will need a paint job, if you want to avoid rust. I painted mine for $5 and just a little time.

I've used both and bought the KMG, it offers more for your money IMO. Never looked back, I'm a happy customer. Both are good grinders.
 
Where did you purchase the steel bars for tooling arms?? $19 sure beats $70+
 
I picked mine up locally at discount steel. You can see their materials online at http://www.discountsteel.com/index.cfm/go/main.home.htm

I mistakenly bought 1 1/2" X18" (instead of 20") and it is now showing to be $23.79. The 18" works just as well for a small wheel attachment.

It's amazing how fast steel has gone up. I bought mine at $18 and some change + tax, approximately 1 month ago.
 
Hmmmm, some one read my mind... I am going to put my boat up for sale and get a grinder, but am really undeceided as of yet. I had been leaning towards the Burr King because they are reasonably close to where I live... It would be nice to "test drive" one or two of these machines and compare..
 
I bought a chunk of 1 1/2" square bar at the steel yard here and gut out 6 tooling arms. Cost me $60 bucks a year ago. Steel has gone up but, it is still a good deal. I did have to take and hit all 4 sides a bit with a 9" disk grinder to get them to slide in to the KMG receiver. Then drill and tap them for my various stuff. I made some wheels and a disk attachment. I have step pulleys on both my KMG and my clone. The KMG has a variable speed mtr. You can mount the disk arm and use one of the step pulley grooves to run it.
 
For what it's worth, you also have to have the large drill and tap, so if you have to buy them local or order them just for one tool arm it may not be worth it. When Alan first got his KMG I was there when he made something like 8 arms. Far more worth it then.

Also, the home made ones don't seem to slide as nicely in the kmg as the ones from Rob, no idea why. I highly suggest you put the taper at the back like he does to get the arms in easier.
 
A while back I shamelessly borrowed a "clamp" tooling arm design and implemented it in my home made grinder.

With this design, all tooling has a 3/4 shaft sticking out. You mount the tooling by inserting the shaft into the 3/4 clamp-type hole on the tooling arm and 1/4 turn of the clamping bolt (SHCS).


If you only have one tooling arm, you can prolly do this mod to the other end of it.
Drill a 3/4 ID hole may be 1" in from the end. Drill and tap for the holding screw, slit. Done.

Most wheels have BBs with 1/2 id. For these you make a bunch of 3/4 shafts, reduce one side to 1/2 just shy of the wheel's depth, DT the 1/2 end for retaining screw (1/4-20 works fine). Now you can replace them in seconds, w/o having to swap the whole arm out.

For platens and such it gets a bit more evolved. I welded a shaft onto my platen.

I posted pics etc of that mod - you can find it in this very forum. I think I will do a youtube video of the whole thing soon, just have to get my kid to agree to tape some segments.
 
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