Grinding 154CM vs. O1, 1080, 1095

Bruce Culberson

Bruce Culberson

Joined
Feb 6, 2007
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I tried grinding a 3" blade from 3/32" 154CM stock on the weekend (first time using stainless). It seemed to take twice as many belts and twice as long as grinding 4" blades from 1/8" O1, 1080, & 1095. Also it heated up way more - burnt my thumb several times. Is this normal?

Here's a tip - the water bucket also works good for dunking your hot thumb as well as the hot blade.
 
I don't do much grinding.:p

I've milled a couple pounds of chips of it the last few days and I'm surprised how quickly it dulls my endmills. It is supposed to machine fairly well (and I guess it is, the finish is good), but so far it is eating them up faster than D2, which is worse than O1 by a mile.

Is this normal? *shrug*
 
Those are my primary steels and yes, you will wear belts faster on 154 than O-1. The trick to keeping it cool when grinding (as opposed to O-1) is to use only fresh belts and dip after every run as you thin the blade out. I found it's easier if you hog 95% finished with you heavy grit (one belt per side, but keep the used belt as it still has plenty of life in it for other materials) then just finish you grind with the next higher grit, then the finish grits. It hand sands nicely, I think a little better than O-1 and holds it's edge extremely well. I hope Crucible pulls out of their current dilemma because I LOVE CPM-154.
 
I love it as well....one thing I noticed (and tell everyone that would listen) is that you dang sure better have all of your scratches, 400 grit marks, etc out of the finished product because you sure as hell ain't gonna buff them out like you could 440C or ATS34! Don't ask me how I know this little tidbit of information....
 
Maybe you had a piece that wasn't properly annealed because 154CM is the same as ATS-34 !!!
 
The main difference I see between ATS-34 and CPM-154 is a smoother feel when you grind and finish. I can't really explain it, but it just feels more "slick".
 
Bruce Culberson said:
I tried grinding a 3" blade from 3/32" 154CM stock on the weekend (first time using stainless). It seemed to take twice as many belts and twice as long as grinding 4" blades from 1/8" O1, 1080, & 1095. Also it heated up way more - burnt my thumb several times. Is this normal?

Here's a tip - the water bucket also works good for dunking your hot thumb as well as the hot blade.
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Yep thats normal:D
Del
 
Is everyone really using twice as many belts for 154 vs carbon steels? I don't notice that much difference, hard or soft.
 
TekSec said:
Those are my primary steels and yes, you will wear belts faster on 154 than O-1. The trick to keeping it cool when grinding (as opposed to O-1) is to use only fresh belts and dip after every run as you thin the blade out. I found it's easier if you hog 95% finished with you heavy grit (one belt per side, but keep the used belt as it still has plenty of life in it for other materials) then just finish you grind with the next higher grit, then the finish grits. It hand sands nicely, I think a little better than O-1 and holds it's edge extremely well. I hope Crucible pulls out of their current dilemma because I LOVE CPM-154.
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That's strange. :confused: I get about 10 blades rough bevelled - both sides, from a single hogger and then I 'retire' them to profiling. Are you using A/O belts? More like a dozen with blaze, but that isn't enough extra to justify the extra blaze cost over the hoggers.

I can't really compare the steels, because I've only made a couple O1 blades - but lots of stainless blades.

Rob!
 
Depending on size, I can get several hardened stainless blades out of one ceramic belt. I ground four small (~3"), hardened 440C blades with top clips on one orange cubitron belt last week and did not get them hot or have to push them hard. I know it's not the same steel, but I don't notice a big difference grinding 154, ATS, or 440C, hardened or annealed.

As long as I use good ceramic belts, I don't have any problems with any steels. Cheap belts, even the ceramic and zirconia ones, do not last me, but the 3Ms do rather well.
 
I use Norton and Klingspor, however there's a big difference in grinding out a 3" - 4" blade and a 6"-8". It also has to do what kind of grinds. If you're just roughing up a 1/2" from the edge or doing a full flat. Usually when I see people making claims of hogging out a ton of blades on a single belt, they are over using them, but that's just my opinion.
 
Hi Eric - I don't disagree that there's a difference depending on size, but for me there isn't a big difference between steel types. That's why I put up the size of the knives I ground - the OP was asking about something fairly small like my knives.

I don't think you can really over use a hogging belt, it either cuts or it doesn't. When the belt stops cutting, the blade won't stay put and it thrashes your grinds. It's pretty easy for me to know when the belt is finished. As for other grits, I can get one AO belt per knife, per grit, they just aren't sharp enough to bother for a second knife if I want a fresh cut. Gator belts last so many knives it's not even funny.

I hollow grind all of my knives, even the flat ground ones, which helps save on belts as well.
 
I grind SS (ATS34 or 440C ) when you feel the blade warm it's to late you are all ready burnt and you can't get away from the blade fast enough, you will have a blister. I can't wear gloves when grinding and you have to do a lot of dunking the blade in the water bucket .
 
AcridSaint said:
Hi Eric - I don't disagree that there's a difference depending on size, but for me there isn't a big difference between steel types. That's why I put up the size of the knives I ground - the OP was asking about something fairly small like my knives.

I don't think you can really over use a hogging belt, it either cuts or it doesn't. When the belt stops cutting, the blade won't stay put and it thrashes your grinds. It's pretty easy for me to know when the belt is finished. As for other grits, I can get one AO belt per knife, per grit, they just aren't sharp enough to bother for a second knife if I want a fresh cut. Gator belts last so many knives it's not even funny.

I hollow grind all of my knives, even the flat ground ones, which helps save on belts as well.
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Most likely the OP got some 154 that wasn't fully annealed. The ATS-34 (basically same steel) I got from David for the military build ate my xirconia belts for lunch because it wasn't fully annealed. I do agree with you that you can't overuse a hogger because of it's performance but I think a lot of the newer guys attempt to and wonder why they can't keep an even grind. One thing I learned starting out was use belts like they're free and you're work will improve :D
 
I make most of my blades from D-2 and 154-cm. Good qaulity belts are a must have. Norton ceramic is the way to go, you will save money in the long run.I only buy cheap belts to do my handle work.I had a customer who wanted his knife made from O-1(tried to talk him out of it) man I wish everything ground that easy it was like butter.I also use 36 grit blaze to do all my perimeter profiling. I can do 25-30 7" to 9" blades, much cheaper than a bandsaw blade.
 
ArtinNC said:
I grind SS (ATS34 or 440C ) when you feel the blade warm it's to late you are all ready burnt and you can't get away from the blade fast enough, you will have a blister. I can't wear gloves when grinding and you have to do a lot of dunking the blade in the water bucket .
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I've had good luck wearing very thin cotton gloves that are saturated with nitrile. They're very thin and there is no extra "stuff" anywhere, so they're almost like not wearing anything, but they to provide some protection during the pre heat treat grinding.
 
I'm only running a 2x42 so I can't get the hoggers and other fancy belts. I use 60 grit zirconia belts for ~90% of the flat grind and then switch to higher grit AO belts to finish it off. I can get ceramics but haven't tried any yet - next order....
The 154CM was hot rolled - even getting the rough scale off was a chore compared to 1080.

I'm hoping to get a 2x72 next winter:)
 
Bruce Culberson said:
The 154CM was hot rolled - even getting the rough scale off was a chore compared to 1080.
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Well there ya' go...try for HRA (A for annealed) next time :) I by precision ground in 154 and it definitely works a lot easier...not as easy as O1 though ;)
 
Bruce Culberson said:
I'm only running a 2x42 so I can't get the hoggers and other fancy belts. I use 60 grit zirconia belts for ~90% of the flat grind and then switch to higher grit AO belts to finish it off. I can get ceramics but haven't tried any yet - next order....
The 154CM was hot rolled - even getting the rough scale off was a chore compared to 1080.

I'm hoping to get a 2x72 next winter:)
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I'm running a 2" X 42" also. Mind telling me you source for belts. I'm not going to up grade to a larger machine as I only do knife making as a hobby.
 
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