Grinding em thin.

Noctis3880

Noctis3880

Joined
Jul 22, 2009
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My Phil Wilson South Fork has pretty much spoiled me as far as the ultimate slicing knife goes. It has a fat one inch wide blade with what I would describe as a zero edge flat grind with a microbevel. That's how thin it goes.

Having failed to find anything in production to come close to this, I figured I might try to regrind a blade on my Worksharp. I figure I might practice on my Moras first as a rule. But what I'm really itching for would be a folder to do this on, maybe something with a decent level of edge retention like S30V or VG-10. Though I assume Spydercos and studless flippers would be best for this as even if I manage to avoid grinding off the thumbstuds, they would come back together the same way with the thinner blade.

I kind of wanted to do this on a Buck 110, but I figure grinding away the nail nick would complicate operation of the knife:p.

Kinda of wondering if anyone had any recommendations of low price folders with decent(Rc 58-60) non-Chinese steels to use as my guinea pig, but also won't be affected by the full length grinding of the blade as far as opening and closing goes. And perhaps a recommendation of something else with Rc 60+ to really try and exploit that thin geometry.

I realize the grind won't be quite full flat given the flex of the belt, but I figure it would be considerably thinner than the usual full convex grinds like from a Fallkniven or Bark River.
 
I've done this on my Para 2 and Police 3 and all I can tell you is that the difference in cutting performance is huge. The blades are much more fragile now, but I'm never gonna use them as beaters anyway so it probably won't matter. I wanted them to be fine cutters. As far as cheap folders go - why don't you try a Byrd knife?
 
I'm not sure about Chinese steel. Seems like it might be the worst thing I can put on my belts short of Pakistani steel. I might go for it if I find something ridiculously cheap on the 'bay. Though I figure for the real keeper, a Kershaw Leek with S30V and G10 would be good. It has a thumbstud, though I figure the heel of the edge is put forward enough so I can grind around the studs.

Have to say though, I don't feel well equipped for the job. I converted the Scandi grind on my Mora to a sort of half convex grind(half the width of the blade is convex), and it took a hell of a long time even with the 80 grit ceramic belt. I suspect people like Tom Krein who does regrinds would use a full-size belt sander with something like a 32 grit belt. Sadly, I don't have much room for a full-size belt sander.

What I'm still kind of hung up on would be the grinding near the tip area. When sharpening or reprofiling, I normally lift the handle in order to follow the curve up to the tip. Observing my regrind from Tom Krein, the lines don't appear to curve in a way that suggests that the handle was lifted during grinding. So I suppose the million dollar question is how to grind in such a manner without obliterating the tip or curve?

In any case, I'll be practicing with my Mora tomorrow. I doubt I'll finish before going to work, but hopefully I can thin out the blade some without messing up the spine too much.
 
Ah, forgot I had that one:D. That seems like a good candidate. Seems like half the work is done already with that thin hollow grind. Alrightly, just need to practice on my Mora then:thumbup:. Pictures will inevitably follow. Maybe with my long neglected macro lens too if fortune permits.
 
Chinese 8Cr13MoV is not bad. Stefanwolf posted his Tenacious & Resilience @ 60HRC.

Give the Spydie or Byrd a try ..

Going lower cost if you're thinking of using it as practice session, try Enlan EL01, flat sabre ground, studless. Enlan has the best HT among the Chinese companies, reportedly 58-60 HRC.

I've tried thinning down the Navy k631 but the edge holding is not as good as Enlan.
 
Hmm, maybe. Though I suspect I'll just get some Moras and grind them down for my coworkers to use:thumbup:. Interesting thing to note is that the mora flex doesn't seem to cut quite as well as the South Fork given that it's thin enough to bend quite a bit. I might try to thin that one out too.
 
I can't speak for Krein, but the Bark River guide on convexing suggests not to lift the handle. Check out their website for further info.
 
stoffi said:
I can't speak for Krein, but the Bark River guide on convexing suggests not to lift the handle. Check out their website for further info.
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Couldn't find that on the site, but I'll keep that in mind. Though that does sound a little strange as I assume the convex would follow the curve as well all the way up to the tip.
 
I'll also 2nd the earlier comment, regarding 8Cr13MoV ('Chinese') steel. It's not bad at all. Find a reputable knife maker using it (one using decent heat treat, who publishes the RC numbers for it), and I don't think you'd have any reason to worry about it.

As for the Buck 110, unless you're dead-set on flicking the blade open with one hand, I wouldn't worry about grinding off the nail nick either. Blades on these a quite 'pinchable' to open. In fact, I don't even use the nail nick on the Bucks I have (110/111/112). Some early models of the 110/112 didn't even have nail nicks, and didn't need them.
 
I reground my composite blade Kershaw JYD II. The edge was stupid thick I thought. It went to around .013" and then sharpened. It is now my most used and carried folder.
 
chrisber said:
I reground my composite blade Kershaw JYD II. The edge was stupid thick I thought. It went to around .013" and then sharpened. It is now my most used and carried folder.
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I'll give that one a look.

Though it seems like the Cold Steel Mini Tuff Lite is an excellent candidate with a $20 price tag and AUS-8 steel, which in my opinion is about as close as one can get to stainless 1095.
 
Progress is pathetically slow considering it's 12C27 at Rc 57-ish. Makes me wonder how S30V at Rc 60+ will be like. One 20-minute session(maximum continuous runtime of the Worksharp) got one side about 1/3 of the way done. I've ordered some 40 and 60 grit belts online to see if that will speed things up on future runs. Another thing is that while the blade heated up enough to make a small hissing sound when quenching the blade in water, it took quite a while to do so. So I'm a bit confused as to how some people manage to ruin the temper on their blades, even with the 80 grit belt:confused:.
 
depends on the steel but you can effect the temper if it is as hot as you said, hissing sound. Also the thinner it gets the faster it will heat up. The coarser belts will really make a difference. You'll really be glad you got them. Do you have any ATS 34 blades? ATS is a high speed steel and can get very hot without effecting the temper. There is two different temper temps for ATS and I do beleive both are pretty high.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHVeyo4W18U
 
Noctis3880 said:
Couldn't find that on the site, but I'll keep that in mind. Though that does sound a little strange as I assume the convex would follow the curve as well all the way up to the tip.
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Since there is give in the pad u dont need to lift, but you need to twist. u gotta check out the guide though its great.
 
It is definitely a slow going. Only resetting the edge on Enlan EL 01 (flat primary grind) took hours, a bit less for EL02 (hollow primary grind).

The Navy took 2 weeks for me (alternate days, 1-2 hrs each), as I wanted to thin down a lot. All are done free hand on stone (320 & 400 from Daisho) and water. Finishing on 1000 grit synthetic stone and 1000 grit sandpaper + stroppong on carfboard loaded with MAAS polishing paste.

Using belt sander is faster but I don't have any power tools. The story is to illustrate more on the steel involved rather than my patience ;)
Enlan claims it to be 8Cr13MoV at 58-60 HRC, Navy claims ut is 440C (which I suspect also same series of the CrMoV steel) at 56-58 HRC. Found both claims relatively true (Enlan harder to do and lasts longer).

You can check the result photo posted at Sanrenmu thread in Review subforum, or the EDC thread (both old & new) in General subforum. Calls to Arm posted his result on EL01 and it's about as thin as mine. Someone at Britishblades did full convex on his EL01, but I can't find picture on it.

Good luck & let us know your result.
 
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I've reground a couple of knives: one Buck with a 112 style blade, an Old Timer Peanut (yes, it was too thick for me), a RADA Santoku, 2 machetes, and I'm partially through a Cold Steel Kudu. The effect on cutting is dramatic. The most successful attempts have been the Buck, the Peanut, and the machetes. I really like the machete regrinds. Right now, my Cold Steel Barong machete has an edge geometry similar to my Parker Edwards large trapper blades. No damage except on dirt and rock impacts, and a hair shaving edge after an afternoon's work. The Buck went down to 0.005" at the top of the sharpened bevel. That thing cut like crazy. I removed the hollow and left a flat about 1/8" wide at the top of the blade. This didn't remove my nail nick. That would take a lot of metal removal. I'm guessing the nail nicks go 1/4 to 1/3 of the blade thickness deep.

On the Worksharp, it will take a LONG time. I did mine on a 1x30 sander with appropriate belts. I'd give the Byrds a try. The steel seems quite good, and takes a crisp edge without too much fuss. I wouldn't worry about it loading up your belts. Those belts are just too small to cut for long in this application, but if it's all you have, go ahead.
 
I think the Worksharp should be fine until I need to make my own neck knives or something. I believe the 40 grit zirc belts should be a great deal faster than the 80 grit. And if the blade gets hot enough to make water boil off with about 10 swipes then speed shouldn't be an issue. Aside from that initial wear in sharpness I don't feel the 80 grit belt is really wearing down much at all.
 
I said the same thing about a 24 grit belt when regrinding the machetes. After an hour of little progress, I switched to a new one and was done in 30 minutes. IME, cheap belts wear out fast. It's not that they cut slowly, they just stop cutting.
 
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