grinding frustration.....!!!!!

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DannyDiablo

Joined
Mar 18, 2008
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176
Ok so I just got the new grinder..gotta admit, not really progressing as quickly as I had imagined and I'm running out of stuff to practice grinding on. How many angle changes do you guys make before you have your finished angle? and should I be making quick, multiple passes or slow deep grinding passes? any info would be appreciated. I should add that I'm flat grinding using a 2 x 72, working off of a rest at about 2000 rpm Thanks in advance
 
Danny, I am far from a grinding expert. The only advice I can give is loose the rest. Not saying it is not useful sometimes but you'll build better muscle memory by practicing freehand IMHO.
Flat Grinding by Harvey Dean is a great DVD to help you understand what is happening.
 
Not everyone can do freehand grinding. It takes a lot of practice to do any of it. After about 100-120 blades you will figure it out pretty good. Is there a local maker that you can contact and get some pointers? That is the best way to learn instead of the trial and error method.
 
Thanks Guys...I think that video might be exactly what I need Patrice. So your saying the 12 or 15 I've gone through already isn't all that bad then Walt ?? lol..I get the feeling it isn't something you pick up over night which makes me feel better..Thanks again
 
Thanks Guys...I think that video might be exactly what I need Patrice. So your saying the 12 or 15 I've gone through already isn't all that bad then Walt ?? lol..I get the feeling it isn't something you pick up over night which makes me feel better..Thanks again
 
I'm in no position to sit here and try and hand out advice, so I won't. I will however tell you what helped me tremendously. Fred's Bubble Jig. That tool has given me a confidence that I didn't have before. You might want to look into it.

Good luck, bro!
 
I agree with Patrice on losing the rest. It just always seemed to be in the way for me and I have better control without it there. On the passes, I just keep checking the angle until it is where I want it. Then try and keep it there while grinding rest of blade. I am always looking at grind lines and adjusting while grinding. Grind a bit, dip in water, look at last grind line, adjust if needed, continue grinding, just takes a second to do this. The more you grind the easier it becomes.

One thing that I think really helps is to make a conscious effort to have your body in the same position each time you grind. For me it is knees locked and no slouching to the left or right and having your body mass centered. And if you get frustrated, put the blade down and take a break for a bit. A permanent marker works great for highlighting areas to see exactly where your belt is grinding. Each blade does get easier and better.
 
I like the idea of marking the grind with a sharpie, and Michael at the rate I'm going through steel practicing,that bubble jig is probably a good investment..I've seen your recent knives on your Facebook page and they look good man. If the bubble jig gets results like that I'm in..Thanks
 
I agree with the others, loose the rest. The bubble jig has helped many people. No matter what you do, try to do it the same each time. Listen to MJV, Body in same position, arms and legs locked. Make a slow pass and set your angle and then keep checking as you go along. It sounds easy as I type it but I still need to practice, practice, practice.
As far as your 14-15 blades.....start trying to make a nice large bowie. By the time you "get it" you will have a very nice paring knife!
 
Here's what I have learned.
I start by getting my blade flat. Then dyekem the edge and flats. Scribe my twin edge guides.
Next, grind the bevel at around a 45 to the scribe line. Use a good light from above. Next place the 45'd grind up to the belt an tip it back slightly so you see a gap then grind another pass. Each time you do this the grind will walk up the blade until you get to the spine.
If I'm not clear, or didn't explain well enough perhaps someone else could help elaborate.
The dyekem helps keep all the lines clear for me.
I'm just learning myself so I hope what I learned helps you.
Also, as I was taught, make sure you are mentally ready to grind when you step up to the grinder. It just takes a little lapse in attention and next think you know you ground up into your flats. :-O
 
:p I know what you mean KDC. I wish I was left with something even remotely close to a paring knife...So do you guys recommend the whole grinding system or just the jig?
 
Try grinding a rectangular bar rather than one that is profiled. You will be able to see if your grind is consistant that way, and you can always turn them into knives later.
Del
 
DannyDiablo said:
:p I know what you mean KDC. I wish I was left with something even remotely close to a paring knife...So do you guys recommend the whole grinding system or just the jig?
Click to expand...

With the bevel clamp you get even, matching plunge lines. The bubble rides on the clamp arms which are identical, both sides.

Fred
 
+1 Bubble Jig.

With the clamp and BBJ you will get nice angles right off the bat. I start off grinding 36grit at 3600 RPM and the bevels with come rather quickly. I then switch to 120 and slow down to 1750 to clean it up a bit and even out the grind then go to 240 and 860 rpm to fine tune it some more. Then off to heat treat.

Once the grind angle is established it is easier to freehand and let that blade ride the belt like a plane making a landing.

The $75 Fred charges for the BBJ and clamp will save you about $1000 of frustration.
 
+1 for the bubble jig setup.
I do many shallow passes, adjusting as I see where I'm not quite even. I might grind more heavily early on when I'm just roughing in but I still try to keep it even and smooth.

As for how many angles, usually just a few. I'll do a 45 to a bit shy of my desired edge thickness for the pre-heat treat point. Then I get out the bubble jig and set it to what I think I want. I generally over angle it then once I've got a nice even flat I'll adjust a little taller if I need to. That first grind with the bubble though, I leave it set the same but I intentionally grind with the bubble off center, basically lined up with the line in the glass. Get a good strong flat there, even and consistent and take that down to nearly meet my established edge. Then I go a bit shallower, on a thinner blade I just skip straight to what I set on the bubble and see where that gets me. You get a feel for whether you're going to be too high or low when you reach your desired edge thickness. I always aim to be a bit too low and then adjust higher.

Fresh belts, get the flat established so you can set the blade on the belt and feel it, then just give it a run across and start over. Another thing I learned here was to not start AT your plunge, start in a bit, then slide back over to it then across.

I'm no expert, in fact I fubar'd a blade quite nicely yesterday with my new grinder by working too fast. It'll make a nice new knife for me in the kitchen, but that's sure not what it was supposed to be and it's never going to look nice enough to sell or give to anyone.

For me it's fresh belts, work in nice steady passes not trying to rush it or grind a lot in one go. Let the belts do the work, you just try to keep it where you want it. Slow and steady under careful control is faster than anything else for us newer folks. Let the masters do fast, they have the skilled hands and experience to make it work.
 
You need to see sparks when you are grinding, so make sure you are using enough pressure. Gently rubbing the blade across the abrasive builds heat, which isn't too big a deal in annealed state, but once you are hardened, it can cause problems.

Bought the bubble jig, and I am happy with it. Gets me started, but lately after I get a good bevel on the blade, I loose the bubble level, and go freee hand. Problem I run into with the jig, I tend to watch it, and not watch whats happening on the other edge of the grinder. I am finding I need to be watching the whole grind, not just the level. I think it is a good tool and will help starting out, because once you go from blade one-freee hand no jig, compared to the second blade with the jig, it is a huge difference, and builds confidence.
 
There are a lot of ways to get to the finished product here. I free handed for years, then got Fred's bubble jig, played with that for a little bit. The guy who helped me the most in the last year was Mike Q. He suggested using a short rest to at least establish a good flat bevel. If you can do this you can drop the rest and finesse the bevel to the right place freehand. There is no real shortcut. It takes time to get the hang of what you are feeling in the cut. Like Brian mentioned, one minor laps of attention can destroy a nice bevel in a heartbeat. Good lighting is a must too. I have not found I ever have too much. But as many have eluded, practice practice practice. Then when you think you got it down practice some more.
 
Just to clarify, for people new to this hobby or thinking about trying it, 100-120 knives is a bit of a metaphor. It means you're basically never as good at it as you would like and even the most experienced knifemaker out there still makes mistake grinding. They are just better at correcting them. ;) It also means practice is the key.

But don't get discouraged, you can start to see some progress long before you have that number of knives under your belt. I am not saying that I am good at the grinder, far from it, but I have ground about 2 dozen knives in all so you can see that you can make some decent looking knives without having to wait 10 years or more. (Assuming 10-12 knives a year for a hobbyist)

I don't mean to offend Walt. Just making sure newcomers don't get discouraged by this. It's be a shame for them to quit before even trying. Apart the fact that if you get hooked, you'll forever be poor ;), it is a great hobby. And that is as much because of the people practicing it than because the craft itself.

We return you to your regular scheduled program. ;)
 
I haven't read all the replies but Patrice is always on the spot with common sense. I agree completely. The Harvey Dean video is wonderful...you don't have to grind one each side in a different position as he does but it just might work for you. As Patrice says it's muscle memory. It has nothing to do with the number of blades you grind , more so how carefully you reflect on your mistakes in movement and body position.
Practice on mild steel, make intentional mistakes and see if you can correct them (then use the mild steel for guards :)
Grinding is just like learning how to use a hand plane, using a saw, jointing a board. With thoughtful practice and low expectations you will surprise yourself.

While I am in the minority on this, I wouldn't recommend the bubble jig until you learn how to grind well. After you know how to grind then it will come in handy with more advanced techniques.

I was lucky that all my other skill sets helped me with grinding but I really took off after seeing the Harvey Dean video. Notice that many top knives have his "look" with variation in the plunge line shape. Harvey Dean also has a great name-
Regards & goodluck,
Dean
 
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