Grinding jigs & Technology, are you making a profit?

B

Boyer Blades

Joined
Oct 5, 2000
Messages
17
Ok now here is a question all knifemakers must eventualy answer sometime (usally it's the wife asking it)...

Are you making a profit or is this just a costly hobby?

Be truthful... tool costs, show costs, ad's, time, travel, hotel... are you showing a profit? Are you in this to profit or is it a glorified metalshop 101 hobby class?

Making knives one at a time... taking the time to polish and rub out each scratch is very time consuming. Only the best known knifemakers can afford to profit from making knives one at a time, the old fashioned way (I will see one this weekend, Phil Boguzinski).

I make anywhere from 4 to 10 knives at a time... profile 10, grind 10, heart treat 10...

I don't know who is profiting from knifemaking but, I have to work full time and then spend 2 hours a night in the shop just to make a extra $500 to $800 a month in profit.

 
Excellent question! One that most maker's shy away from answering.

I can only speak for myself and my situation. Money is not my primary goal as a professional knifemaker but it is very important. I have bills just like everyone else. Two daughters and one that just started college and still lives at home. I made and sold my first knives in 1974 but couldn't make enough money at it to become full time until 1992. They Neo-Tribal approach to knifemaking has helped me tremendously. How? Because my overhead is so low. I use leaf springs from American made vehicle from the 1950's and 60's for my primary blade steel. I bought all for ends off of a 57 Dodge 1/2 ton pick up for $80 and I made close to 100 bowies out of it and a bunch of smaller knives to boot. This is a high quality steel(5160) for pennies per blade. I don't use electricity so I don't have that overhead costs either. I don't have to constantly buy grinding belts and have any machine upkeep to speak of. I make my own charcoal as fuel for the most part so that cost me next to nothing. I have picked up most of my tooling from yard sales or used tool stores and the occational bargin off ebay. I doubt if I have $1000 rapped up in everything I own and use for my knifemaking and most of that cost is in my open air ramada style smithy. I could of probably shave that down some too but something it's makes more since to just buy something than it is to spend forever search for the bargin. Most of what I sell a knife for is profit. Before I was a professional knifemaker I was a union journeyman carpenter and I am now making close to that same wage as a knifemaker. It took me year to do that but it has happened. This is still a moderate income compared to most but it satisfies me because I am doing exactly what I want to do. I'm not living high on the hog by any stretch but it gets better every year. I have a 72 international scout sitting in my driveway because I can't afford to fix it at the moment but don't most of us have little irritating money problems like this? This isn't a get rich quick profession but it is almost enough for me. I have to admit I can't wait until those kids of mine are grown and making thier own way. They eat like horses!

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http://www.livelyknives.com
 
Right now, I am in it for a hobby. I sell the occasional piece, but that isn't critical for me.

Working on a grind or trying to figure out how to do something new is relaxing for me....that's the critical element for me right now.
 
Well - in my case, it has to show a profit. What it doesn't have to do is pay the mortgage.

Being a part-time maker, the money from knifemaking only has to pay for the things related to knifemaking. Making a profit, and making a living are two seperate questions.

Take care,
Bob


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R.J. Schmidt
http://kukri.itc.virginia.edu
 
Hello,

I`ve been a maker for almost 13 yrs full time now and no i am not rich by any means, but i pay the bills each month and keep supplys coming in for more knives. I do it because i am good at it, not because of the money , or trying to become a " FAMOUS" knifemaker, i can tell you for certain there are more than a few" FAMOUS" knifemakers out there whose workmanship is shody at best.

Remember to there are not very many makers whos sole means of income is derived from knifemaking, alot of them are retired with Pensions ect.. to rely on, so they can make the 500.00 folders and not care if they sell
or make a profit because there bottom end is already taken care of,, either that or
there wife works also.

I have found the FOllowing to work just fine : To Offer The Quality Found on more expensive blades at prices below The normal prices people have been paying for the same kind of knives with lesser quality !

To me Profit is being able to pay my bills and buy supplies and not have to Gouge the knife buying public to do it.

Allen

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Allen Blade
Spokane,WA USA

" You can make great knives and sell a few, Or make Great AFFORDABLE knives and sell many"
WEB SITE : http://www.geocities.com/bladecutlery/blade_cutlery_site001.htm
 
Boyer, do you have a web site, or some pictures of your knives ?? I'd like to see them. Whats your mark and how long have you been a maker? You a full timer??

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Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!
http://www.nebsnow.com/L6steel
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
Profit!? Huh, thats whats missing! Our situation is changing more towards showing a profit. In 1996 Audra got her journeyman stamp and when she returned from Atlanta, she started her own shop, (until that time she was working out of Ed Fowlers shop) she has put just about every dime back into the business, shows, tools, materials and travel, over the last 4-5 yrs. she has managed to build a new garage/shop and have it well equipped, I admit I'm a tool junkie of sorts, working as a mechanic for 20yrs. if something comes along to make my work easier or more efficient , I get it..and that carries over to knifemaking I just love those little gadgets and am continually making something to make work a little more productive, we just got a surface grinder, next will be a milling machine...then we will probably add a few more shows...its been tough at times...you got to love it, no other way you could do it! Mike
 
i started knife making 3 1/2 years ago and have been full time for 2 now. i made the change at 38 and have found my hearts desire in knife making. part of that profit is the inner feelings of loving what i do. i am single and never fathered any kids so i have lower overhead than most. i am self taught and have never rented a table at a knife show. i was in sales/ads marketing for 18 years. and i have always loved the challenge of doing it a little differnt.and to some up the tecno question, if i am still getting grinding dust under my finger nails i'll probaly use it.

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Laurence Segal www.RHINOKNIVES.com
 
I started grinding knives to relieve stress from my everyday job. I don't show a profit but I feel good about what I do. I usually give my knives to friends and family. I don't need the income from my hobby to live. I figure if at some point it just pays for itself, I will be happy. Just my thoughts.

Marcel
 
Good question, Mark! Judging by these responses, it seems that there aren't really that many knifemakers that depend on it for thesole basis of their livelihood. It's either a part-time gig, it pays for itself as a hobby, or it is full-time and the maker has financial backing from a significant other. I know when I was making sheaths for sale that I was turning a decent profit. On the other hand, I'll bet if I determined how much money I was being paid per hour of sheath work versus what the average maker was being paid per hour of knife work, that I was making out like a bandit. I was able to pay for a few knives with my profits, but the amount of work for a sheath is much less than that for a knife, so I was probably making more doing sheaths than I could have on knives.

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My Knife & Sheath Pages:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/frames.html
Palmer College of Chiropractic
Sheath Makers Referral Directory
chiro75@yahoo.com
Madpoet (Mel Sorg, Jr.) Tribute page:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/madpoet/main.html
 
Got started for two reasons. The first was because I couldn't find a knife commercially I was happy with and R.B. Jenkins got me thinking. The second was, as Marcel said for stress relief. It was supposed to be a hobby - like fly tying or something. It Got away from me. Yes, I'm making a profit - enough to live on and grow the business. Wish I'd had a bit more practice time before it took off but, other than that, no regrets.

Rob!

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Rob Ridley
Ranger Original Handcrafted Knives
 
Profit/... We dont need no stieeekin profit.

Knifemaking is a labor of love.

wink.gif


Its about a wash , pay the bills and keep going down the path.


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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
NEW WEB SITE TAKE A LOOK!!!!!!!!!
New projects and pics to look at !!!!
 
Net Income (Profit) = Revenues - Expenses

Expenses include:

  • Raw Materials
    Overhead
    Amortization of equipment
    Marketing/Advertising (includes travel expenses and table space at shows)
    LABOR

After reading the above posts, I would think that most, if not all of you, are booking net losses, considering that your hours of work (highly skilled artisans that you are) are worth much more than what is left over after all other expenses.

As your customer, I respect you, I applaud you, and I thank you.

Derrick Wulf
 
Ahh, but Mike, yours is a different situation than most. Profit is not everything. You have the unique situation of not only having a wife that likes(loves) knives, she makes them too. All that, and she looks like that too! It dont get much better than that.

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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
This is an interesting question, especially for me.

I first started tinkering with making a knife when 13, finished one at 14, and by the time I was graduated from high school had things like a variable speed Burr-King.

But did the money come from knives? Ha, no!

The money came from mommy and daddy. Ha, kidding again. Seriously, there were a hell of a lot of bucked hay bales and shoveld horse sh** and mowed lawns to buy the stuff I have.

That's why I bought the best, I was just starting it all at "the beginning" of my life and wanted to do it right.

But now where is it?

I still love making knives, but I think it's because I have left it as a part time venture. If I just don't have the gumption to grind a blade I don't HAVE to.

Being 22 and confused about what to do with myself I am constantly asked, "Why don't you just make knives for a living???"

I guess the simple answer is that with the cost of living and the possibility for burn-out in knifemaking, I want to keep knifemaking as something I love yet don't depend on.

I'll keep grinding though, even if I am slow
wink.gif


Nick
 
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