Grinding Post HT and kool mist system

Drip systems work ... but they do not compare to a mist system. They are also much messier.

I started with a 1 gallon glass shell oler (new surplus for $10) filled with water, a teaspoon of Dawn, and a teaspoon of baking soda. It was raised above the grinder and had a needle valve to control the drip. I had a copper tube that could be positioned to place the drips on the belt just after the top idler wheel.
Not exactly like this, but larger and similar:
s-l1600.jpg
 
Hubert S. said:
This helps to reduce the build-up of gunk a lot, but does not completely eliminate it. It is about on the same level I had when just using a spray bottle to occasionally wet the belt, maybe a bit more.
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You aren't using enough water which is why the gunk. I have a quad mister set up... I've tried every position and unless I'm hogging material I put dual misters on the outside of the belt just under the drive wheel, and the second set of dual misters can either be used like Stacy said (right above/on the knife when hogging) or inside the belt to thoroughly soak it and remove the build up.

Kool mist coolant helps prevent rust, but doesn't work perfectly. Carbon blades still develop rust if left sitting soaking wet with the solution, and my non-stainless trough rusted out. My grinder got rust all over as well - and I've always used kool mist at the correct ratios.
 
Triple Stripe Knives said:
What I've used is just bucket of water and a rag, you dip the rag in the bucket, then put it against the belt. I reapply every few passes or whenever I notice any heat.
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I do something similar. I have my typical bucket of water under the belt to catch the sparks. I dip a shop towel and hold it against the back of the when grinding. It acts as a heat sink and doesn't get the belt overly wet and I don't have water thrown everywhere. I often use a work rest and a push stick method for grinding but instead of a push stick I use my fingers and a wet shop towel.

I do have a couple misters as in the original post but found the wet shop towel easier.
 
Hubert S. said:
Agreed. I start at 60 grit and even that is not a big issue in terms of controlling the heat. The big problem for me is 120 grit and above, I have burned the tip and/or edge on several knives. All thin kitchen knives. It happens so quickly once the edge gets thin enough. So I guess it became a vicious cycle. I'd burn a tip, so I apply less pressure next time, so the belt is not cutting well, so there's more friction and I burn the tip again. The mister seems to have solved my problems, or at least one of them. For a beginner like myself, I think it's really helpful not to have to worry about overheating the blade all the time.
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I agree that the last part of a thin blade can be tricky. The OP's comment about wanting to remove lots of material quickly caught my eye.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
You aren't using enough water which is why the gunk. I have a quad mister set up... I've tried every position and unless I'm hogging material I put dual misters on the outside of the belt just under the drive wheel, and the second set of dual misters can either be used like Stacy said (right above/on the knife when hogging) or inside the belt to thoroughly soak it and remove the build up.

Kool mist coolant helps prevent rust, but doesn't work perfectly. Carbon blades still develop rust if left sitting soaking wet with the solution, and my non-stainless trough rusted out. My grinder got rust all over as well - and I've always used kool mist at the correct ratios.
Click to expand...
Interesting. When I first tried the mister, I used a heavy mist and had a lot of build-up on the idler wheels and platen, and a little bit on the tracking wheel. I cleaned it off and then used a very fine mist, and there is no build-up on the tracking wheel and just a little on the platen and lower idler. It would be nice to eliminate the build-up completely, but I like how little mess the fine mist makes compared to soaking the belt. I'll have to experiment with it some more and might try spraying the inside of the belt with my second mister if the build-up gets too annoying to deal with.
 
Hubert S. said:
Interesting. When I first tried the mister, I used a heavy mist and had a lot of build-up on the idler wheels and platen, and a little bit on the tracking wheel. I cleaned it off and then used a very fine mist, and there is no build-up on the tracking wheel and just a little on the platen and lower idler. It would be nice to eliminate the build-up completely, but I like how little mess the fine mist makes compared to soaking the belt. I'll have to experiment with it some more and might try spraying the inside of the belt with my second mister if the build-up gets too annoying to deal with.
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Yeah you will have to play around with it... @Nathan the Machinist can verify since he runs a wet grinding system as well (mine is based off of his) - you either have to run belts dry or pretty wet or you will get build up. Just damp will give you gunk on your platen and wheels. To check, use your mister on the inside of the belt and your gunk will disappear and not build up. Also, it depends on your belts, some have a ton of build up, some don't have any. I've been running misters for 5+ years.
 
Hubert S. said:
Agreed. I start at 60 grit and even that is not a big issue in terms of controlling the heat. The big problem for me is 120 grit and above, I have burned the tip and/or edge on several knives. All thin kitchen knives. It happens so quickly once the edge gets thin enough. So I guess it became a vicious cycle. I'd burn a tip, so I apply less pressure next time, so the belt is not cutting well, so there's more friction and I burn the tip again. The mister seems to have solved my problems, or at least one of them. For a beginner like myself, I think it's really helpful not to have to worry about overheating the blade all the time.
Click to expand...
So far i have done maybe more than 50 kitchen knives from 1.5mm thick hardened steel and I never overheated tip. When you start to grind at plunge heat start to accumulate in steel and when you come to tip steel is already to much heated and that is why it was easy to overheat tip. So i grind FIRST just flat part of blade ...close to belly . After I m almost done with that part I start to grind in tip.Light pass on flat part just to get feeling and pressure when I come on tip .It works for me , if i explain it correctly :)
 
I use a misting system that is almost identical to the one pictured in the Amazon link. I do not use anything other than water, no Kool Mist. I also am running it on a small pancake compressor and I have no issues at all. There is no rust buildup on steel, even if there was it is only surface rust and comes off easily enough....you're handling it while grinding. I have no issues with water rusting my grinder, either, but it is painted with Blue Hammerite type paint (TW-90), and the mist doesn't really reach that far, just on the platen, straight onto the blade. I use 40 psi on the output with the pancake compressor, but it does cycle on/off more than I would like. But it's only a $100 compressor under warranty. So far so good!

Now...belts. Not all are the same. My experience has mostly been with Blaze Ceramics. Then makers starting swearing by VSM ceramics, especially for the price point. I ordered a bunch of them in 50 grit and 120 grit and for me, all they do is generate heat after a handful of passes. They work fine for me with annealed steel and other materials, but I cannot get them to work well with hardened/tempered steel. 62HRC AEBL, which grinds pretty easily, killed my VSM 50 grit belts pronto. I ordered more 50 grit Blaze ceramics and not looking back. They cut better and are much cooler.
 
I thought this would be a 3 answer thread when I started it....obviously there was more to know than I knew!

I live in Canada and this is the belts that I am using.
https://onlinesupply.ca/Current-Specials/Knife-Making/KL302765 They are by a company called klingspor. Any ideas if these might work with water/liquid.
This is the site I have ordered the majority of my belts from and their selection. Any suggestions about what might work well with water?
https://onlinesupply.ca/Abrasives/Sanding-Belts/Belts-up-to-2?filter_size=2x72
 
samuraistuart said:
I use a misting system that is almost identical to the one pictured in the Amazon link. I do not use anything other than water, no Kool Mist. I also am running it on a small pancake compressor and I have no issues at all. There is no rust buildup on steel, even if there was it is only surface rust and comes off easily enough....you're handling it while grinding. I have no issues with water rusting my grinder, either, but it is painted with Blue Hammerite type paint (TW-90), and the mist doesn't really reach that far, just on the platen, straight onto the blade. I use 40 psi on the output with the pancake compressor, but it does cycle on/off more than I would like. But it's only a $100 compressor under warranty. So far so good!

Now...belts. Not all are the same. My experience has mostly been with Blaze Ceramics. Then makers starting swearing by VSM ceramics, especially for the price point. I ordered a bunch of them in 50 grit and 120 grit and for me, all they do is generate heat after a handful of passes. They work fine for me with annealed steel and other materials, but I cannot get them to work well with hardened/tempered steel. 62HRC AEBL, which grinds pretty easily, killed my VSM 50 grit belts pronto. I ordered more 50 grit Blaze ceramics and not looking back. They cut better and are much cooler.
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You must be doing it different than gavko then, his tw90's are rusted BAD lol
 
I see people talking about using pumps instead of air compressor here. I hate using my air compressor for things because it is so loud. I have a long hose and place it outside my garage.
Would I need a different "mister head" if I chose to use a pump instead? I assume that the air is drawing the liquid up and then atomizing it to create a mist....with a pump there must be a different principal involved and a different head needed?
 
980p Blaze man, I agree 1000%

Best belt for hard steel.

I like the 60 grits.

I tried saving money with cheapo belts like the VSM, Combat Abrasives, Red Label Abrasives, Hogger belts, and some other Misc no name brands.

All died fast and made lots of heat build up no matter what speed, switched belt direction, dressed belt, cleaned belt with erasers, used combat abrasive belt grease.

Nada.

980p for me.


I tried the Cubitron 2 with the y wt backing, didn't have the initial cutting aggression on the 980p so it seemed the hype with the shaped triangle abrasive wasn't worth the extra cost.

samuraistuart said:
I use a misting system that is almost identical to the one pictured in the Amazon link. I do not use anything other than water, no Kool Mist. I also am running it on a small pancake compressor and I have no issues at all. There is no rust buildup on steel, even if there was it is only surface rust and comes off easily enough....you're handling it while grinding. I have no issues with water rusting my grinder, either, but it is painted with Blue Hammerite type paint (TW-90), and the mist doesn't really reach that far, just on the platen, straight onto the blade. I use 40 psi on the output with the pancake compressor, but it does cycle on/off more than I would like. But it's only a $100 compressor under warranty. So far so good!

Now...belts. Not all are the same. My experience has mostly been with Blaze Ceramics. Then makers starting swearing by VSM ceramics, especially for the price point. I ordered a bunch of them in 50 grit and 120 grit and for me, all they do is generate heat after a handful of passes. They work fine for me with annealed steel and other materials, but I cannot get them to work well with hardened/tempered steel. 62HRC AEBL, which grinds pretty easily, killed my VSM 50 grit belts pronto. I ordered more 50 grit Blaze ceramics and not looking back. They cut better and are much cooler.
Click to expand...
 
• You can buy concentrated anti-corrosion formula by the gallon. "Rustlick B" is what I've used in the past, find it on Amazon, MSC, etc. The primary ingredient is boric acid, which you can make yourself by mixing borax with water. Problem with borax/water solution is you'll get watermarks if you let it evaporate on the knife; the solution is to spray/wipe with windex.

• I've played with all kids of water spray systems. I currently use a direct-from-tap water spray that includes an inline borax mixer as the anti-corrosion element, a cheap 12V solenoid valve to turn on/off the flow (which is controlled by a cheap wireless remote-controlled outlet), along with a needle valve to dial-in the flow. I use a 5-jet spray nozzle that I made by drilling 5 holes in a Loc-Line extension piece. Demo: https://www.instagram.com/p/BZ3c11HFCxX/
 
Randy - did you ever try that inexpensive spray system, and how did it work?

I burned another edge yesterday (even wth water on the belt it happens so FAST), and so am careening towards getting a spray system...
 
Just buy one. It will change your game. I agree that the cheap ones seem basically the same for our needs.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Just buy one. It will change your game. I agree that the cheap ones seem basically the same for our needs.
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thanks stacy - I went ahead and ordered it. I dont doubt it will help - it seems like I am just getting to where I want to be on a grind, and I need to stop and cool the blade off. when things are thin, just a few seconds at a time. It is really disruptive to have to take that stop every few seconds.....
 
Cushing H. said:
Randy - did you ever try that inexpensive spray system, and how did it work?

I burned another edge yesterday (even wth water on the belt it happens so FAST), and so am careening towards getting a spray system...
Click to expand...
I bought one, but it is packed and won't be installed until my new place is built. House is sold and we are out on Thursday. We are going to live with mom and dad for a bit til we get a trailer on the new property....I'm 57 and mom still tells me to put my jacket on in the middle of the summer. I'm motivated to get the build happening and finished soon as possible.
 
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