Gripes

V

vaquero57

Joined
Nov 12, 2000
Messages
131
I get tired of seeing all these books and makers who talk about their high dollar grinders and lathes and shop equip that makes guys like me feel small. I just got a book for christmas that I did not ask for by Bob Tetrezula on the tactical folder. His shop looks like it cost 200,000 dollars. In the book how to make knives by loveless in the back he talks about grinders and how you should stay away from cheap stuff. Ok I agree everyone of us would like top notch equip but some of us cannot afford it. I make about 15 dollars an hour in SW Iowa where the cost of living is so low our 300,000 dollar California house cost us 40,000 dollars here. That is a pretty damn good wage for around here. Add a wife in college and a son and a truck payment and I don't have much money left over. For those knifemakers that think that we cannot be at their level unless we have their kind of shop then my nose up to you. I guess I used to have a friend like this that always had bettrer stuff than everyone else. In my completely unadulterated opinion, fancy tools and grinders do not make a knifemaker. That is why I like Wayne Goddards book( besides the fact that he sent me a copy and autographed it for me just cause he felt like being nice) because he talks about the $50.00 knife shop. Now here is a knifemaker that understands that while expensive equipment is nice it is not needed. Like my friend Bruce Evans(another greast guy that understands) says, Where there is a will there's a way. Just had to get this off my chest. Wew I feel better. Time for breakfast.

------------------
" I am a shootist."
Clay Allison
" Does this mean we are bladists?"
Vaquero57
McAlpin Bladesmithing
 
Ha! I bet our shops compare rather well. I use the cheapest of everything, it seems. But I believe what these folks mean when they say to buy the best tools you can has two parts. First, good tools last longer and are probably cheaper in the long run. Second, good tools, and I think particularly a good grinder, would save a lot of time, and for the pros time is real money. Just my two cents. Now I'm broke.
 
I bought a new burr king in 1989 from the money I made selling knives from using a 4 1/2" angle grinder. Then made more knives, better looking knives, sold them for more money and bought a drill press. I worked on them after an 8 hour shift from my day job. It was my hobby and therapy from my stressful day job. Most of my other tools and equipment was hand made from junk yard parts or parts bought new and custom made from tools bought from knife sales. Part of the fun of knife making is making the tools to make the knives better and easier {less labor by hand = less carpel tunnel syndrome) and sell for more. I worked my way up to a shop full of nice tools this way and quit my day job. Bruce
 
I have a LOT of tools.......it took me 18 years of buying one at a time to get them all. Knifemakers dont make a lot of money. I think you should take a look at yourself instead of complaining and save up.... the reason Bob says to get a good grinder is because that is the MOST important piece of equipment in your shop and you NEED a good one.......its not a luxury. A few of my tools are older than I am and I was born in 47.
 
I don't believe it's the tools that makes the maker. You just have to follow your own vision. That's what will seperate you from the thousands of other makers. You have to show us what can be done with what you have. I doubt that people buy knives because of the equipment the maker owns. They buy your knives because they strike their fancy. The tools are only tools. Your arm and head are your best tools. Your vision made into a tangible art piece is what a lot of collectors want.
I don't own a grinder and my most expensive tool cost me a hundred dollars. A champion 400 blower. It is even a luxury I could do without if I had too.

------------------
http://www.livelyknives.com

[This message has been edited by lively (edited 12-31-2000).]
 
you could say i`ve bot an el cheapo shop too but i`ve also been told i make very nice knives and that i should be teaching this art , that was said to me by a very respected old man in this city and also the one who has taught me alot about knifemaking.
My shop consists of : (2) anvils ($150)
(2) vises ($10)
(3) homemade
forges ($50)
(1) drillpress ($60)
(2) benchgrinders (85)
(1) 4x36 x 5"disc (90)
(1) 1x42 x 8"disc(200)
(2) homemade
buffers ($30)
(1) bandsaw ($170)
some sand paper and files and i`m on my way!!
smile.gif

oh yes and a couple dremels i got fot christmas..
smile.gif


http://www.photopoint.com/j/View?u=210599&a=1554672&p=34928774&Sequence=0&r



------------------
i keep grinding and grinding and it is still too short!!
 
you could say i`ve bot an el cheapo shop too but i`ve also been told i make very nice knives and that i should be teaching this art , that was said to me by a very respected old man in this city and also the one who has taught me alot about knifemaking.
My shop consists of : (2) anvils ($150)
(2) vises ($10)
(3) homemade
forges ($50)
(1) drillpress ($60)
(2) benchgrinders (85)
(1) 4x36 x 5"disc (90)
(1) 1x42 x 8"disc(200)
(2) homemade
buffers ($30)
(1) bandsaw ($170)
some sand paper and files and i`m on my way!!
smile.gif

oh yes and a couple dremels i got fot christmas..
smile.gif


View




------------------
i keep grinding and grinding and it is still too short!!
 
View


obviosly computers are noy my stong point either
smile.gif


------------------
i keep grinding and grinding and it is still too short!!
 
apparently i like to brag how cheap i`am
smile.gif
cause those are in Canadian dollars too
biggrin.gif


------------------
i keep grinding and grinding and it is still too short!!
 
Hey guys I am not trying to piss anyone off. I just like to get everyone riled up now and then to see what everyone feels. Don't take it personally. I have alot of respect for the knifemakers that I mentioned. I am an auto mech by trade and have been for 11 years. I have seen alot of macho mechanics that have had 10,000 dollar toolboxes they financed and nothing but snap on tools to fill it. Let me tell you I am more than qualified to say this, alot of them so called mechanics could not wipe their ass,they just thought they could. I have also seen alot of these style of mechanics who were damn good. I have about 15,00 in hand tools for my job including the box all paid for. I have a large craftsman box, and various snap on, mac tools, matco tools, and craftsman tools, and a few other brands including some cheapos. I am not afraid to show someone my craftsman wrench because I know I can still get the job done alot faster and better than some guys can with a wrench that costs 5 times as much. So I know good grinders are important and probably improve the work but until I can afford one my 4x36 has been doing pretty nice work along with my "cheap" industrial abrasives belts. I am still making free knives anyways for all my family members and there is alot of them who are deer hunters. I could ask a little money for them but I feel very content giving than receiving and if I have to wait a little longer for supplies so I can start my next freebie for say my cousin the farmer then I do not care because he gives me privelidges to huntr all the land he owns and I feel that I owe certain people favors to make me feel good about myself. I love to make people happy. When all these are made then I will probably start charging. Right now I am building my brother in laws first hunting knife for him to use next deer season on his first hunt and a rescue knife of my own design for my dad the fireman who is entirely to blame for my passion with knives. I owe it to him cause if it were not for his structured raising of me I might not be who I am today and I asm enbtirely grateful. This world should be more about giving and less about take,take,take. It would be a better place.

------------------
" I am a shootist."
Clay Allison
" Does this mean we are bladists?"
Vaquero57
McAlpin Bladesmithing
 
P.S. Tom, It sounds like you may have got a little upset about my first post and I appologize. As I said I was not trying to offend anyone. I found this site initially but then switched to the CKD Forum cause I felt like the guys their were less high tech and more appreciative of a beginner. I have since re evaluated my thoughts as they were not true. This forum is without a doubt a damn good one and you guys are helpful and for that we should all be thanfful. We were all beginners once so we should not forget that.

------------------
" I am a shootist."
Clay Allison
" Does this mean we are bladists?"
Vaquero57
McAlpin Bladesmithing
 
Getting new tools one at a time as you can afford them is part of the fun. Sort of like getting a new toy every once in awhile. Most of us never have all the tools we want.... always one more that we will buy when we have the money.
 
Well, I agree with Tim, do what you like, I like good equipment...but a lot of the stuff I have is old and worn out....Its all I can afford. I believe Bob is giving very good advice when he tells someone to buy a good grinder. Its the exact same advice I would give. That doesnt make me better than anyone, but I do think Im right. Thats all. People have different priorities in life, and they can do whatever they want to with their money, and we shouldnt judge them, no matter how we feel. That is sometimes hard to do. Have a SAFE New Years Eve. Tom...
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 12-31-2000).]
 
In Loveless's book, don't forget Richard Barney knocked out a fine piece with only hand tools. Sometimes I wonder if the greatest expression of love for the craft is shown in a piece such as that.

The essense of who you are as a knifemaker/designer/creator will be revealed in your knife; equipment will determine how long it takes you to get there. A grinder doesn't produce talent, it enables what talent is already there. A great maker can grind a great piece on most any grinder because he knows the subtleties involved, both with his own abilities and the application of what's in front of him.

Tom's right, the best grinder for you is your most important piece of equipment. But the best for you might NOT be the most expensive. You have to determine the one best adapted and suited to your style and technique with all its features.

Each knife is an expression of its maker--it comes from within. Each knife bears its maker's own distinctive touch. However there's always some folks who exhibit the originality of a Xerox machine.
smile.gif
You could put them in a 200K shop and it probably wouldn't make much difference.

The celebration of each piece you produce, however it's made, should overshadow the desire of it being crafted in merely a more efficient fashion.

Jim Hammond
 
I just wanted to mention that you will not necessarily make good knives as soon as you buy megabuck equipment. As others have pointed out, skill and determination are important factors.

When I bought my first (and only) belt grinder, the first full time maker I told asked "Can you take it back?" Seems knifemakers, like knife buyers, become advocates for what they're familiar with.

When checking out someone's equipment, take into consideration the quality of knives they make and the quantity of knives they make. Chances are, the "big guys" making lots of knives have more than one grinder and can have several drill presses, buffers, etc.

Also realize that buying a machine is only part of the equation. You have to get it in your shop, wire it up, buy all the tooling and accessories you need for the job, and then learn to use it. I'm a knifemaker, but not a machinist. Maybe you can imagine how overwhelmed I felt when I first brough a lathe and mill into my shop. Four years later, I'm still learning how to run them!

The point is that the equipment some established makers have is a collection of many years of buying things, trading for things, upgrading things, and buying still more things. If every tool in your shop is 20 years old, then you might not be as progressive as you could be. Even so, if the results you are getting make you happy, great!

------------------

Tom Anderson
Hand Crafted Knives
 
I think that you miss the point, once a maker begins to depend on knifemaking to put groceries on the table and a roof over his head it becomes necessary to upgrade the operation to produce enough HIGH class product to pay the bills. Making knives stops being a hobby and becomes a business and in any business time is a valuable commodity so a second grinder to do flat grinds instead of changing the setup on your hollow grinder makes economic sense.

Complain about makers who collect machinery to make their lives easier all you want but until you have to live on the earnings from your hobby don't do it so loudly.

A maker that I know works with a drill press, hacksaws, a small buffer, sandpaper, and a large collection of files. He is the only three time winner of the WR Kronk award of the Knifemakers Guild for excellence. His name is Wolfgang Loerchner. If he can win awards for excellence with these limited tools why does anyone need high tech equipment?

------------------
george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
I am a young guy (birthday comming up, please send presents) and have made 4 knives. First was with a file. Then I got a Sears 2X42 grinder for X-Mas last year. I bought an $80 drill press from Canadian tire in the summer. I got an etcher ($100) for x-mas this year. Slowly but surely I'll have Bob's shop! I'll have Tom Mayo's ship first I suppose, but that will be great too!

I understand why the knife makers urge us to get the best we can get. When I was active in the martial arts I saved and waited and made do until I could get good quality gear. It is well worth it. Eskrima sticks that cost 6 times as much as hardwood dowel last way more than 6 times as long and you get much more enjoyment/good training out of them.

Vaquaro, I assume that knife making is a hobby for you. It is for me. One of the things I think about before I fall asleep is how many knives I'd have to sell before I got a better grinder. And I have my eyes on a Bader BIII!! When I have the $$$ I'd actually be getting a Bader BV or BVI, but that is o.k. Actually, I have to make a few knives and SELL them first, which i have not done yet. But that will come soon (in a few months I hope!)

Vaquero, do you have a pic of your work? I'd love to see it!



------------------
"Come What May..."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top