Gritomatic CBN Sharpening Stones.

We still don't have samples of metallic CBN including ones for Wade. Unfortunately we lose time window to have metallic CBN in our next goods arrival to US at the end of September.
Nevertheless we prefer to sample these stones before selling. There are 2 problems with metallic CBN:
1) Organic and vitrified bonding technologies are relatively new and advanced. There are many reasons why these technologies are widely adopted in sharpening. Metallic bonding technology is quite old. It's widely used in machined cutting and polishing. Metallic bond CBN and diamonds must have less performance than organic/vitrified bond versions. The only advantage is enourmous resource.
2) Stones (6"x1") are relatively heavy which is not comfortable for guided sharpeners.
There is demand for metallic bond CBN, but we need to be careful as a seller. We had a failure with metallic bond diamonds on russian market. Being twice more expensive than Venev diamonds, metallic diamonds had no real demand. Metallic CBN is 100 USD for one grit which is very expensive.
 
Just to let everyone know my stuff has arrived in Canada and I should be getting it on the 30th of this month.
 
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Just so I understand will you be getting the Metallic stones in September,also how thick are they.

When you say(Metallic bond cbn and diamonds must have less performance than organic/vitrified bond versions.)do you mean that the Metallic cbn does not cut as fast as Organic cbn.
 
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Just to let everyone know I got stuff today that I'm going to review and I will be posting a review in this thread as soon as I can,I'm extremely busy with work right now and I will most likely not get around to posting anything until the end of this week on the weekend or early next week,if I can I will post the review sooner.
 
Here is the review of the Venev Diamond stones and Poltava CBN stones.

I just finished sharpening my Spyderco Manix 2 made from Maxamet steel,I first started off with a Venev 150 Diamond stone because Russian custom's sent them back on Konstantin and we decided to ship out what he did have,the 150 Venev Diamond stone just tore right threw the Maxamet steel much easier then I would have thought it would.

Next I moved up to a Poltava CBN 280 400 600 1200 stones,there is only 2mm thick of CBN on the plates and seem to wear more like a man made water stones and they released a small amount of grit and seemed to cut almost as fast as the Venev 150 Diamond stone without having a 150 grit Poltava CBN to compare the Venev stone to it's hard to say witch cut's faster,I finished off the Spyderco Manix 2 with a Venev 2000 grit stone and it was very sharp and for most people that are looking for a really sharp edge most likely wouldn't need to strop.

Also everything came packaged nicely and each stone came in it's own lexan holder,the box was not only taped shut Konstantin also put plastic strap's around the box as well like they used on certain product's where tape is not enough to keep the box held shut,dealing with Konstantin from Gritomatic was great he knows his stuff and is very easy to deal with and was fast to answer any questions I had,I know I will be ordering more of the Venev Diamonds stones for sure and I'm going to wait and see how the Metallic CBN stones perform before deciding on witch of those I will use the most.

Also the sharpening system I used was a K02 I got from George at STATES and I must say I really like the K02 sharpening system better then any other I have used so far.

I will be posting pictures of my Japanese Gyuto Chef knife that is made from ZDP-189 and also my other Spyderco Paramilitary 2 that has S110v for the blade steel later this week and I'll let everyone know how the CBN and Diamond stones work on them and I'll also post pictures.
From what I'm seeing so far both the CBN and Venev Diamond stones seem to cut threw the Maxamet steel fairly fast,I was able to sharpen my knife in about 15 or 20 minutes it did not take long at to do,I was thinking it was going to take a while to sharpen this knife because the steel is so hard but was not the case at all both the CBN and the Venev stones cut very fast threw the steel and were a please to use,I know it took longer for me to sharpen a Hinderer XM-18 with a Bowie blade made from S35VN with Chosera stones then it did to sharpen this knife if that say's anything.

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This is how they come in their own package.

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These 3 are the CBN.

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These are the Venev and they are 3mm thick and seem to be very long
wearing stones.

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I also like the way they come laser engraved on the aluminum blank.

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The Venev are also engraved on the back side of the blank as well.
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This is some Silicon Carbide that Gritomatic sell's and you use to clean your stones with when they get clogged up with metal filing's I got the full set that comes with a peace of glass as well.

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wade7575 said:
Here is the review of the Venev Diamond stones and Poltava CBN stones.
Click to expand...
Wade, thank you very much for review. Hope to see further feedback on S110V and other difficult steels.
If you don't mind, I will give my humble opinion regarding your progression. You start with coarse diamond and switch to CBN in the progression. This makes big sense because diamond should be relatively faster than CBN of the same grit. However, Venev diamond #2000 is questionable to me as superfinish. In term of grit, Venev #2000 is finer that the finest CBN you have (#1200). The goal of CBN is not higher performance but making a scratch pattern better than diamonds. It means you might degrade the cutting edge with Venev #2000. Of course it's not the rule, as it depends on steel, but you may take it to consideration.
Stropping or ultra fine waterstone could be an option for progression.

adamlau said:
Hoping to see these products in 8x3 sooner rather than later...
Click to expand...
I will post an update about manufacturer's roadmap for CBN benchstone within a week.
Venev Benchstones will be available at the end of September.
 
I understand what you are saying about the scratch pattern being finer with the CBN over the Venev Diamond stones,I just wanted to see if the 2000 Grit Diamond stone would improve the sharpness of the edge and it did,I know a lot people like a toothy edge over a mirror polished edge claiming the toothy edge cut's better.

Gritomatic said:
Wade, thank you very much for review. Hope to see further feedback on S110V and other difficult steels.
If you don't mind, I will give my humble opinion regarding your progression. You start with coarse diamond and switch to CBN in the progression. This makes big sense because diamond should be relatively faster than CBN of the same grit. However, Venev diamond #2000 is questionable to me as superfinish. In term of grit, Venev #2000 is finer that the finest CBN you have (#1200). The goal of CBN is not higher performance but making a scratch pattern better than diamonds. It means you might degrade the cutting edge with Venev #2000. Of course it's not the rule, as it depends on steel, but you may take it to consideration.
Stropping or ultra fine waterstone could be an option for progression.
Click to expand...
 
Wade:
Thanks for a nice review of the CBN and Venev diamond stones. Per your finished edge and Constantine's comments, I'm guessing that the CBN leaves a much less aggressive scratch pattern than diamonds.

In looking at the pictures I couldn't help but notice what I now refer to as my signature gouge on the Spyder side of edge near the ricasso. All but one of my Spyderco's, using the K02 have the same gouge in the exact same place. What is up with that gouge and do you find this acceptable?
 
I'm not sure what's up with that gouge yet I'm going to have to play around some more and see if I can get rid of it,that's the only thing I don't about Spyderco's knives they don't leave any gap between the ricasso and the heel of the blade,I like the Hinder knives like the XM-18 with the Bowie blade because he leaves a gap and also unlike other knives they put the thumb studs in the road and sometime you have to clamp the knife more towards the tip rather then in the middle.

In regards to the Venev stones and the CBN the Venev stones cut much faster if you ask me and made very short work of the Maxamet steel so much so it would have taken me longer to sharpen one of my Hinderer XM-18's with S35VN blade steel using Shapton glass stones then the Venev,the CBN stones do not leave any scratch in the blade at all it's just like a Shapton glass stone or Chosera or Nubatama scratch pattern.The only advantage with the CBN over a normal sharpening stone is that the CBN is much harder.Machinist's prefer a wheel or grinding tool made from CBN over diamond because diamonds get soft when they get hot where as CBN is more stable and does not get soft,when it comes to diamonds they are softer then CBN when they get hot from friction,I also used water and a bit of dish soap when I used both the CBN and Venev diamonds.

I don't feel I know I know you get better result's with a Venev stone CBN or Diamond hone when you use some kind of lubrication.

Also look up George's post's about getting in the new Table for the K02 and look at his Syderco with Maxamet steel his knife does not seem to have the gouge or at least the camera angle is not showing it,the thread is called TechStudio K01 Profile Sharpening System,I have not asked him yet what he did but I may ask him if I get fed up with trying to get rid of the gouge in my blade.

Kirk D. said:
Wade:
Thanks for a nice review of the CBN and Venev diamond stones. Per your finished edge and Constantine's comments, I'm guessing that the CBN leaves a much less aggressive scratch pattern than diamonds.

In looking at the pictures I couldn't help but notice what I now refer to as my signature gouge on the Spyder side of edge near the ricasso. All but one of my Spyderco's, using the K02 have the same gouge in the exact same place. What is up with that gouge and do you find this acceptable?
Click to expand...
 
Just to let everyone know I just sharpened my Spyderco Paramilitary 2 with S110V a few days ago and I started off with Venev diamonds and start with the 150 grit and progressed up threw all the grits up to the Venev 2000 grit then I went to a Shapton 8000K then Suehiro 10 and 20K then I stropped with .25 then .10 CBN I did not have another strop on hand to use .025 poly diamond emulsion.

The Venev stones tore right threw the S110V and maybe just a bit slower then when I sharpened the Maxamet but not much,what a lot of people think is the harder the blade steel the hard it will be to sharpen and in most case's that's true but in some it's not,I have heard some people that offer sharpening service's say that the more Chromium in the steel the hard it can be to sharpen now that is true or not I do know that S110V has 15.25% in it but as I said I have only heard what I stated and can say for sure whether or not that is true.

The reason I dropped back down o a Shapton Glass 8000K stone was because the Venev 2000K stone leaves scratch's even at 2000K grit witch is what I expected,it should be noted that the Venev stone is the same or very close to a 15K water stone the Venev stones use the FEPA grit scale witch is different then the grit scale used on the Shapton's,the reason for going backwards to a Shapton Glass is simple,I wanted to use the Venev stones to do the heavy lifting and to also go up the Venev 2000K meant that the scratch's would be finer and easier to get out with a Shapton 8000K stone.

Once I have sharpened my Japanese chef knife made from ZDP-189 I will post my result's,also I must say that the Venev stones so far seem to work better then any other stone I have used whether it be a water stone or a diamond plate.
 
The only advantage CBN has over diamond is it can withstand much more heat, which does not matter when hand sharpening. The downside is it is not as hard, not as sharp, and costs 10 times more for the raw powder. IF diamond could withstand the heat there wouldn't be much of a market for CBN abrasives.
 
wade7575 said:
I'm not sure what's up with that gouge yet I'm going to have to play around some more and see if I can get rid of it,that's the only thing I don't about Spyderco's knives they don't leave any gap between the ricasso and the heel of the blade
Click to expand...

And or use a Dremel to make a sharpening choil or try this...

 
Mo2 in your top video was what I was thinking of trying to do when I get my table for my K02,I just couldn't get the right angle I wanted with the clamp's on the K02.
 
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Yeah Wade I agree with you. The LAST Spyderco pm2 that I sharpened on a clamped system, I used the exact procedure in the first video. I got better results but the polish on the bevel was gone in the same spot as your gouge. The other side is always fine. Very frustrating not to mention expensive.
George has gotten much better results but he is an engineer and obviously much smarter than me.The PM2 is the last Spyderco I am attempting with the K02 clamped system. I'm thinking either a sharpening notch (2nd video) or move to a sharpening table set up.
 
If it were me Kirk I would get the table for the K02 because it's one of those thing's you may only need it for one today but tomorrow may need it for many thing's,what I mean is that you may only use right now for one or two knives but you may end up a bunch more that you can use it on.

I know I don't mind the way it's done in the first video at all and I think that's the way I'll sharpen the rest of my Spyderco's.
 
Thanks for the review on CBN stones, Wade, and the "metal removal rate" on Maxamet vs S110V. I tend to use Venev diamond for reprofiling and SiC for the progression, stopping at 400 grit as the finishing stone. My toothy edge on the Maxamet has not required any touch up in two months of steady use on cardboard, paper and wood (pruning of wooden branches). Jim Ankerson's test results are validated.
George
 
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wade7575 said:
I'd like to hear something about them to before I buy them only to find out they are not all their cracked up to be,I ask the guy the owns Gritomatic but has not used them as of yet witch was a bit disappointing to me.
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This made me laugh. Hell, just lie then. I can't imagine a manufacturer telling a customer that they don't know how their own products perform.

At the price that they're charging I'll be sticking with Shaptons.
 
T.L.E Konstantin from Gritomatic has not been carrying the CBN for all that long and that is why he could not say to much as to how they performed and could only tell me the only complaint's he had gotten was that the 80 grit wore a bit faster from what his Russian customers had said.
Also as far as Konstantin and his honesty I can tell you I emailed him back and for many times and he always gave me an honest and straight forward answer Konstantin knows his product's he sell's very well for the most part.
It's funny because an American I know who really likes the Chosera stones or at least claims to for some reason,has told many people that I know personally that there is nothing better then Chosera stones so asked the guy flat out then why do they not perform as well as Shapton Glass stones and of course it's always the user of the product's that's right blame the end user when I know for a fact when talking to the guy in states told me many times before he did not want to carry to many different types of stones.

If it were me I don't know if I would buy the CBN stones because they are very thin,but the Venev diamonds are the real deal and sharpen extremely fast and I have been using them to do all of the heavy lifting and then using Shapton Glass stones and Suehiro's then stropping to finish them off,also the Venev stones wear very slowly just like a Shapton Glass stone but get the job done in half the time.

Also just to be clear Konstantin never told me anything about the CBN stones other then the 80 grit CBN stone did not wear very well from what he had been hearing and other then that he did not say anything else to me about the CBN stones other then they should cut better then most other stones out there but was waiting for more feedback before he formed an opinion about.

I'm not saying you came on hear to bash Konstantin but if you did please don't start because he treated me excellently and was never misleading with the way he answered my questions he was always up front with me and for that he will be getting more of my business.
 
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