Groove above the bevel of a Bowie, Name, Purpose and Origin?

W

War on Packaging

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I have noticed on a many Bowie knives there is a groove above a complex, saber or hollow grind. This groove runs parralell to the spine of the knife. An example of a knife with this feature would be Ontarios USAF. What a the purpose of this grove (purely Aseathetical), it's name, or it's origin? How is it made?

Note: I am not sure if the knives I am referring to are considered traditional.
 
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Do you mean a fuller? If so, it is there to lighten and stiffen the knife (sort of like an I-beam).

n2s
 
I can see the purpose of a fuller on a sword, but on a knife, I'm unconvinced it's not more than 'marketing' :thumbup:
 
Jack Black said:
I can see the purpose of a fuller on a sword, but on a knife, I'm unconvinced it's not more than 'marketing' :thumbup:
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That is a really interesting point, I honestly never thought about the practicality of a fuller on a knife. I know the purpose for use on swords and it is quite significant. On knives however...

I've perused some of the old catalogs that are posted here and was quite amused at the ads pertaining to the "blood groove" as if it was supposed to be a good selling point. To this day, people still refer to a fuller as a blood groove and it is something they are drawn to almost immediately, especially if they aren't necessarily that familiar with knives in general.

I guess if you are not using an otherwise big, heavy blade for functions involving chopping, heavy camp chores, and the like, the only reason to lighten the blade with a fuller is either aesthetics or combat functions.

So yeah..... Marketing. Potentially yet another "tacti-cool" feature....
 
For stabbing blades it eases withdrawal of the blade from the wound by releasing suction. The original bayonets on British army rifles were a round steel spike referred to as a pig sticker and the flesh would seal around the bayonet. Pulling it out created a suck which could make it difficult and I have heard could pull organs and fresh outwards through the hole (nasty) As it was seen as inhumane all future bayonet designs have been a blade with a hollow vent along the length which allowed blood out and air in reducing suction on the withdrawal. I'm guessing the same is true of a bowie knife which has a very stabby shape.

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I survived a couple fist fights in my younger days but never defended myself with a knife. I hope it's never necesseary, especially since use old time slipjoints! But what I've read indicates that it was used on knives primarily for marketing. And it was intended to lighten swords.

bernard_levine said:
They haven't shown up yet, as there is no such thing!

"Blood groove" was a silliness concocted by the P.R. folks at Union Cutlery, to try to explain why the Marble's Ideal has a hollow ground (Oh!) blade.

The Ideal blade is hollow ground, like a razor, so the blade could be honed like a razor -- i.e. laid flat on the stone.

Other companies copied the hollow, without knowing why it was there, and therefore put it in the wrong part of the blade, so it was useless.
Chief among these was Union Ka-Bar. Who concocted 'blood groove' to rationalize their own irrationality.

*

Many swords have long fullers (grooves) to lighten the blade without weakening it, thereby improving its balance.

Obviously irrelevant to a 5, 6, or 7 inch hunting knife blade.

*

Certain custom knifemakers (who shall remain nameLESS yet well LOVEd) hollow ground their blades because it was easier than learning how grind a flat or convex surface using a round wheel -- something real cutlers learned to do as apprentices.

BRL...
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martinwoods_uk said:
For stabbing blades it eases withdrawal of the blade from the wound by releasing suction. The original bayonets on British army rifles were a round steel spike referred to as a pig sticker and the flesh would seal around the bayonet. Pulling it out created a suck which could make it difficult and I have heard could pull organs and fresh outwards through the hole (nasty) As it was seen as inhumane all future bayonet designs have been a blade with a hollow vent along the length which allowed blood out and air in reducing suction on the withdrawal. I'm guessing the same is true of a bowie knife which has a very stabby shape.

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Bit of a myth I'm afraid. It's use was to lighten and stiffen blades, for aesthetics and in the case of the British army; reduce costs. I did an awful lot of chefs work in my younger days and never had any random organ evacuations as a result of a non-fullered chefs knife [emoji16] :thumbup:
 
pmew said:
Bit of a myth I'm afraid. It's use was to lighten and stiffen blades, for aesthetics and in the case of the British army; reduce costs. I did an awful lot of chefs work in my younger days and never had any random organ evacuations as a result of a non-fullered chefs knife [emoji16] [emoji106]
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were you stabbing live animals? What kind of chef work was it?
The weight reduction on sword blades sounds factual but the suction of a round spike bayonet is also factual. The redesigned blade/bowie knife type are easier to withdraw following a stab into abdomen or chest.

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and all this time i was lead to believe that it was for the blood to flow when a animal was stabbed as not to be squirt if you will with the blood
 
I've never imagined bayoneting to be "humane" in any possible sense except maybe mercy killing of someone who has been machine gunned and impaled on the wire and is begging for death.You are out of bullets .Maybe the writhing and death throes could cause the bayonet to suck.
Horrifying really isn't it.
I can however imagine the kind of insanity that would market the "humane bayonet".

I wish I couldn't.
 
Captains W E Fairbairn and E A Sykes must have been particularly cruel or stupid not to have included a 'blood groove' on their fighting knife. I'm surprised it was so widely adopted, and that commandos were able to carry it with all the bodies and organs stuck to their blades :rolleyes:

I wonder if this thread wouldn't be more fitting in Practical Tactical.
 
Jack Black said:
Captains W E Fairbairn and E A Sykes must have been particularly cruel or stupid not to have included a 'blood groove' on their fighting knife. I'm surprised it was so widely adopted, and that commandos were able to carry it with all the bodies and organs stuck to their blades :rolleyes:

I wonder if this thread wouldn't be more fitting in Practical Tactical.
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Those armchair theorists! :D
Good point. The Applegate/Fairbairn doesn't have them either.

It's just one of those things you keep hearing, no matter how often you hear it debunked.
 
scrteened porch said:
Those armchair theorists! :D
Good point. The Applegate/Fairbairn doesn't have them either.

It's just one of those things you keep hearing, no matter how often you hear it debunked.
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LOL! :D I'm surprised the design teams at SIG, Glock and Heckler & Koch, or whoever designed most of the US Army Stoner bayonets, for example, haven't been prosecuted under the Geneva Convention, for not including a 'blood groove'! ;)

Sadly so :( Thankfully, one doesn't have to look far to see the myth widely debunked, for instance - https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/the-blood-groove/
 
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A fuller is for lightening and stiffening and that is apparently all. It functions like an I beam which by virtue of is able to maintain the stiffness of a solid beam. Sometimes I hear it is even stronger than a solid beam, but I'm not sure. If it is true then a fullered knife should be stiffer than an identical but unfullered knife, while still being lighter. The only tradeoff would be less mass though which could be a disadvantage in some aplications.
 
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