Grrrr

D

Dan Zawacki

Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Messages
366
Okay. I'll be the first to admit, I'm probably not ready to tackle a project on this scale. However, when my kids show an active interest in something more productive than video games, I like to encourage them.

One of my boys asked me to make him a sword.

Before we get the whole kids and swords are not compatible thing going on in here, do bear in mind that I am, contrary to popular belief, a responsable father. While the finished product may belong to him, that doesn't mean it's going to live within reach. His mother and I have come up with a good set of ground rules that we feel quite comfortable about the level of interaction he may actually have with the thing, and we made the rules quite clear to him in advance.

Anyhow, it's the process of making the bloody thing that has me all irritated right now...

I figured a decent short sword would be a good idea. Where he's still relatively small, it would be large in his hand, and yet, even to a full grown man, a short sword is not a weapon to sneeze at!

Forging it out wasn't such a rough task. Took more heats than I though it might, but overall, not such a big deal.

Draw filing was, of course, tedium incarnate. Took me weeks of two hours here and there, but draw filing is now finally finished. I even set the shoulders and plunges without major incident. It sits flat on my kitchen counters, and the bevels over the length of the 18" blade are more even than they were over the 8" of my firsst knife blade. Definite progress there!

Then, I get into sanding to remove the file marks...

The bevel lines between the actual bevels and the flat of the blade (I always liked a flat hexagonal cross section for double edged blades. Don't really know why, but the diamond cross section always looked less appealing to me) were nice and sharp and straight after draw filing. I was really proud of that.

Now they're rounding out and getting ugly and wavy and uneven! I am using a hard sanding block, which is nice and flat, with good square corners. I just don't get it! I hung it up for the night after like 10 minutes because I was so disgusted I came within like a half inch of giving up on the thing and breaking it!

Does this happen to everyone? More importantly, when I begin sanding the bevels, will the bevel lines get straight and even again, or am I doomed to have a butt ugly first sword?

It may be for my son, and so it wouldn't likely get much show and tell time amongst the public at large, but even so, I want everything I make to meet a certain modicum of a standard, and if the direction this is going in is any indicator, it won't.
 
Dan, I don't know enough to offer any pertinent technical technique-advice, so i'll just say GOOD LUCK!!!!! I got my first sword when I was very young, it was otherwordly like a dream, and highly influencing! Be careful you don't end up with a JR swordmaker on your hands:D, unless that's what you want hehe:).
 
'Before we get the whole kids and swords are not compatible thing going on in here, do bear in mind that I am, contrary to popular belief, a responsable father. While the finished product may belong to him, that doesn't mean it's going to live within reach. His mother and I have come up with a good set of ground rules that we feel quite comfortable about the level of interaction he may actually have with the thing, and we made the rules quite clear to him in advance.'



I can't help on the sword...maybe Todd will pop in and have something to help you...he has made several swords for our boys.

I did want to ask why you gave the above disclaimer? I only ask, because it drives me nuts that things have degenerated so much that good parents now have to qualify what they do, how they do it, what they allow with their kids. Less than 100 yrs ago, 7-8 year olds were out hunting with rifles, skinning animals with bowies and no one thought a thing about it......


anyway, sorry to digress from your problem! good luck with the sword.

Tanya
 
tntbegg said:
I can't help on the sword...maybe Todd will pop in and have something to help you...he has made several swords for our boys.

I did want to ask why you gave the above disclaimer? I only ask, because it drives me nuts that things have degenerated so much that good parents now have to qualify what they do, how they do it, what they allow with their kids. Less than 100 yrs ago, 7-8 year olds were out hunting with rifles, skinning animals with bowies and no one thought a thing about it......


anyway, sorry to digress from your problem! good luck with the sword.

Tanya
Click to expand...

It's a matter of misunderstanding and fear of that misunderstanding.

But to get away from that discussion BLESS YOU TODD AND TANYA, you guys sound like rockin' parents:D.
 
tntbegg said:
Less than 100 yrs ago, 7-8 year olds were out hunting with rifles, skinning animals with bowies and no one thought a thing about it......
Click to expand...
100 years? Hell, I'm not quite 40 yet and that was my childhood! I can't believe how the world has changed....
 
And to answer your other question, yes, that does happen at times with me too. More than likely it's uneven pressure as you run down the length of the blade and you may be rocking it a little also. Try using a longer piece of precision ground 1" to 1 1/2" stock (6" - 8" long), fold your paper into quarters lengthwise, then in half. Each section should wrap around the stock nicely in that size (standard 8 1/2" x 11" sheet). Use some 3M Super 77 adhesive to tack it to the steel in the middle of the bar (spray both the paper and the steel). It will slow down your process but it's worth it! Also, to remove the paper, just soak with some acetone and it'll peel right off. You'll have to clean the steel ever few applications but it gives you a more steady surface to run the length with.
 
Dan, are you moving the sword over an abrasive affixed to a flat plane? or are you attempting to immobilize the blade and hold the block in your hand?
Swords magnify any inconsistancies, I like to immobilize a diamond stone and pass the blade over it, I have more control that way, YMMV

Kids and swords with proper instruction are a good combo, I'm sure the "don't discipline your child" folks are having a heart attack right now, but then again if a kid learns a tool or weapon is dangerous and that nobody gets video game healing powers early it is a positive contribution to what remains of civilization.

-Page
 
If you have a dip in the flats, you can't fix it on the bevels, you'll never get a straight line until the two planes meeting are flat, so you need to go back to the flat and well, flatten it, the file is your best bet. Once you get a low spot you need to learn to ignore it, you can't fix it by sanding it out! You need to take down the entire surface evenly.

Were you sanding the entire length of the blade at one stroke? It is hard to keep even pressure, and sanding back and forth you're going to wear out the middle faster, take it easy and practice sanding smoothly one direction or fix the block and apply the sword to block. That's what works for me.

I had a .22 pistol my parents let me take out by myself starting at around 10 or 12. I was thinking about taking my son out shooting this weekend for his birthday but my fiance says 2 is too young...
 
Good luck!! I sent out my first sword (stock removal) for heat treat today. Man am I not that happy with it but its my first, its for my wedding, and I am running out of time. I also broke the handle trying to get the final fit right. I really respect those who make them well, and it will probably be my last for a long while- at least until I get better at necker size knives.

Make sure to show us when you are done!
 
It is too late now, but a single edge is easier to start on. Double edges are a trick in any size.

As said, it is often easier to move the sword and clamp the abrasive , until the foundation is established (basic lines of the sword). Finer grits can be done with the sword clamped. For the foundation work, synthetic water stones are excellent. Use a diagonal "scrubbing" motion, working about 2-3" at a time.
Continuous smooth strokes are great on a 6" camp blade, but are difficult on a sword.
If you are going to use a sanding block,try to make the strokes as even pressure as possible.
Luke has the most important advise - make sure the flats are smooth ....and flat.... before going to the bevels.

Many a short sword started out thicker and longer before it finally got straight and flat. :)

Have fun and don't worry too much. It all seems to work out on swords.
Stacy
 
Before we get the whole kids and swords are not compatible thing going on in here, do bear in mind that I am, contrary to popular belief, a responsable father. While the finished product may belong to him, that doesn't mean it's going to live within reach. His mother and I have come up with a good set of ground rules that we feel quite comfortable about the level of interaction he may actually have with the thing, and we made the rules quite clear to him in advance.

Hey if your going to give them swords (something I believe in) might as well let them learn something along the way:

This is a very well done and informitive dvd on German Long sword.

http://www.revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=252

Tim
 
I can't help on the sword...maybe Todd will pop in and have something to help you...he has made several swords for our boys.

I did want to ask why you gave the above disclaimer? I only ask, because it drives me nuts that things have degenerated so much that good parents now have to qualify what they do, how they do it, what they allow with their kids. Less than 100 yrs ago, 7-8 year olds were out hunting with rifles, skinning animals with bowies and no one thought a thing about it......


anyway, sorry to digress from your problem! good luck with the sword.

Tanya
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THANK YOU!

I generally don't mention it, but my kids and I shoot together on a semi infrequent basis (which means whenever there's time), and in the grand scheme of things, I didn't think a sword was a big deal. I put that obligatory paragraph in because in today's world, people are so bloody paranoid that I figured it would end up dominating the conversation and then I wouldn't be able to get any actual feedback on the real issue at hand.
 
Interesting idea, that, it hadn't occurred to me to keep the abrasive stationary and move the blade. I knew conceptually that people do it for swords, but it just didn't occur to me in the process of this one.

I don't think I have a dip in the flats, they both lay flat and even on my kitchen counter.

I could well be rocking. My sanding block is only like 5" by 1" by 1". I wrap the paper around that and try to hold at the ends. I'll try a significantly longer sanding block and see if that helps.

I am trying to work manageable lengths. Somewhere in the 4-5 inch at at a time range. I only start rubbing the full length of a blade when I start getting into final finishes.

I hung it up pretty early last night, and I have a lot of work ahead of me today for the dayjob before I can get back out to the garage. I'll try a bigger sanding block and try to keep the pressure more even, and let y'all know how it turns out.

Thank you all so much for the feedback. It's good to know this isn't an insurmountable problem, and that I'm not the first to damn near ruin what had up until that point been a decent sword in the making!
 
How about making a sanding block with a "V" cut into it a bit more obtuse than the angle where your bevels meet but with a crisp "v" in it? Would that clean up the line? Just an idea....
 
WOW!!

Thanks you! Thank You! Thank You!

I bought a rather large piece of purpleheart the other day. The handle and scabbard for this sword are both going to be polished, oil finished purpleheart. The price was good, so I bought a LOT more than I needed, figuring I'd hve a chance to play with some and practice my woodworking and finishing techniques on a good close grained hard exotic wood. Although purpleheart isn't very popular, as it's color isn't overall considered highly desireable and it has all the figure of paper, nonetheless, I figured it would compliment the copper fittings I have planned nicely.

Anyhow, at the suggestion raised in this thread, I used the purpleheart to make a MUCH bigger sanding block.

I had no idea how badly I was handicapping myself! My previous sanding block was a 1 inch by 1 inch pen blank, that was six inches long. Nice and square, but small.

The block I'm working with now is 14 inches long by four or so inches wide, and and inch and a quarter thick.

Hand sanding is all of a sudden not such a big deal! I can work almost twice as long a section as before, the file marks seem to disappear about three times as fast, and I can keep the bevel lines sharp and straight. Boy, was I wobbling that little pen blank like crazy! I didn't even notice it, but this bigger block makes it plain what was happening.


I don't feel like such an abject failure anymore. Maybe a bit foolish for having worked myself to death on previous blades with the pen blank, but no longer such an abject failure.


Thanks again!
 
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