GSO 3.5 (2nd Generation)

Silver Needle said:
I think it is a matter of different machines for different grinds. A flat saber grind needs a machine with a flat grinding surface whereas the hollow grind uses a wheel. If Millit only has the machines for hollow grinds.... there's our destiny.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong!
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I see it the same way sn, I got the same response as syrt95 received and shortly I'll share my response that I'm awaiting to hear back on. I would have assumed guy knew millits grinding machinery prior, just hope there is some clarity provided on orders placed prior to this potential grinding changes and what we are to expect one day.
 
My response to Jordyn to the same email syrt95 received:

I certainly appreciate the update Jordyn but this subject is generating a lot of attention on the forums and I'm sure you'll receive more inquiries on this subject. I don't have a doubt that Guy is looking at this very carefully and will ensure things meet his specifications but I would as many other will also want to know, are the GSOs going to all be produced in house and not w/Millit (to include all the Starter GSO 3.5s)? There is still a major difference between saber/flat and saber/hollow. I would assume if everything from here on out if grinded at Millit will have this new/adjusted grind but how does someone know if its being grinded in house, will there be some news to distinguish which knives are produced where?

Thanks,

Jim
 
It could be an S grind as explained and illustrated by Nathan of CPK:

Nathan the Machinist said:
Yes, all of them.

It's very subtle. It takes a quality straight edge and a backlight to really see it. It isn't for looks, most folks would be unaware it's there.

View attachment 769544

We took a radial platen attachment and modified it with a shop made radius platen backing which allows us to grind a compound geometry.

It's real purpose is on the competition choppers, but we wanted to go ahead and get our feet wet, and the relatively tall bevel on this knife was a good fit for it. Nobody is going to be racing in a 2X4 chop with this little knife, but it's still kinda cool regardless.
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That example of Nathan's (CPK) shows what can be done with a belt sander and a carefully curved platen.
It can simulate a very large round wheel, or in this case allows a subtle change in rate of curvature across the platen face.
It is a pretty cool example, thanks sryt95!
 
I would imagine Guy uses flat grind machining equipment in his shop or could this be a reason why more time was always necessary and dedicated to GSO models. Here's a nice example of one by First Edge Knives in action:
 
Survive has always contracted for the machining and heat treat.
One of the reasons for the Starter program of 2015 was to allow them to purchase equipment and move more of the finishing steps into their shop.
They still contract out for the water jet cutting, the bevel grinding, and the heat treat of the blades, as well as the machining on the handle scales and the manufacture of the sheaths.
For the GSO models Survive does all the surface finishing, fits the handles to the blades, laser engraves the logos, and they do the sharpening and final assembly.
For the SK line they've chosen to contract out for all of those steps, but both product lines start with the same machining and heat treat steps.
 
Fancier said:
Survive has always contracted for the machining and heat treat.
One of the reasons for the Starter program of 2015 was to allow them to purchase equipment and move more of the finishing steps into their shop.
They still contract out for the water jet cutting, the bevel grinding, and the heat treat of the blades, as well as the machining on the handle scales and the manufacture of the sheaths.
For the GSO models Survive does all the surface finishing, fits the handles to the blades, laser engraves the logos, and they do the sharpening and final assembly.
For the SK line they've chosen to contract out for all of those steps, but both product lines start with the same machining and heat treat steps.
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So I suppose the question would be "why the necessity to change up the process now"? I'd certainly like to know who did the cutting to begin with (and possibly still do for their GSOs) and why they couldn't handle a larger capacity. If the Starter Campaign was to acquire their own equipment than why the need to mass produce them to meet demand through a another outfit that now ends up changing the primary grind. Again I'll ask this as some of you may have more information in the absence of hearing directly from the top, will all the GSOs come with the Flat-Saber Grind as we would all expect to include the Starter orders or are all the Starter orders going to fall into the SK line? If I'm not mistaken, I believe the SK line is approx. the same price point minus some personal finishing yet will possibly have a different primary grind now (subtle as it might be).
 
Why are the changing the process now?
First, they are enormously behind on filling GSO orders and so they need some help.
They are seeking this help by reviving their SK line of knives by contracting out the manufacture of those knives using Guy's designs.
Second, they have been dealing with more manufacturing defects than they want so they've changed their grinding contractor.
These changes are happening simultaneously but I don't think that they are linked.
I think they just decided to start fresh with the GSO 3.5 / SK 3.5 blanks, but I suppose they could have stuck with their previous grinding firm if they were satisfied with their work.
If you want any more information I think you really are going to have to get it from Survive.
 
Fancier said:
Why are the changing the process now?
First, they are enormously behind on filling GSO orders and so they need some help.
They are seeking this help by reviving their SK line of knives by contracting out the manufacture of those knives using Guy's designs.
Second, they have been dealing with more manufacturing defects than they want so they've changed their grinding contractor.
These changes are happening simultaneously but I don't think that they are linked.
I think they just decided to start fresh with the GSO 3.5 / SK 3.5 blanks, but I suppose they could have stuck with their previous grinding firm if they were satisfied with their work.
If you want any more information I think you really are going to have to get it from Survive.
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Revive the SK line? There was only one model from what I can remember (SK4). I am trying to address these questions to S!K but haven't received any direct answers yet. Changing up the primary grind on one model or multiple or potentially all SK models is a big deal especially when everyone was/is expecting the same product (flat/saber grind) but produced in a more timely fashion with less hands on in the finishing process. I'm not jumping ship but if that is the case I'll certainly try to convert my 3.5 Starter Order and SK 6 to a GSO model as long as the GSOs are still going to be cut by their current/long term provider doing the cutting. I can sit patient for orders but if the knife(s) being delivered are going through specification changes after the fact that is not acceptable, I'm sure many would agree.
 
sryt95 said:
email response from Jordyn:

"At this point we are still working with Millit on the grind for the GSO-3.5. Nothing is definitive at this moment. We just received a few sample blades back from grinding which look amazing, but have a slight hollow grind. Guy is now working with Millit to change over machines to make the grind as flat as possible. All of our GSO models will still have a saber grind, but in the end might have a slight hollow grind that most people probably won’t notice. As always, we will never put anything out that we are not 100% satisfied with. We will be sure to keep everyone up to date on the changes that are made."
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scout1sg said:
Revive the SK line? There was only one model from what I can remember (SK4). I am trying to address these questions to S!K but haven't received any direct answers yet. Changing up the primary grind on one model or multiple or potentially all SK models is a big deal especially when everyone was/is expecting the same product (flat/saber grind) but produced in a more timely fashion with less hands on in the finishing process. I'm not jumping ship but if that is the case I'll certainly try to convert my 3.5 Starter Order and SK 6 to a GSO model as long as the GSOs are still going to be cut by their current/long term provider doing the cutting. I can sit patient for orders but if the knife(s) being delivered are going through specification changes after the fact that is not acceptable, I'm sure many would agree.
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I had been holding out hope that the GSOs I paid for a few years back would be exactly what I thought I was paying for. The quote from S sryt95 states that even the GSOs are going to Millit. That also confirms that the post on Instagram was not a typo. All grinding seems to be going to Millit.
 
Silver Needle said:
I had been holding out hope that the GSOs I paid for a few years back would be exactly what I thought I was paying for. The quote from S sryt95 states that even the GSOs are going to Millit. That also confirms that the post on Instagram was not a typo. All grinding seems to be going to Millit.
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If that's the case then I'm going to have to cancel my order and look for something on the secondary market. I've never been a fan of hollow ground knives, no matter how slight.
 
Well I can't even express in words the frustration I feel if that is the case. I'll pull my orders as well, especially if my 4.1 and 5.1 ordered early last year will be cut in this matter. This is something SKs will need to let the customer know as some blades are still being cut by the original but at what point will our other GSO models be cut with the hollow grind (no matter the subtleness).
 
Silver, I hear your frustration, but I'm still waiting to see how the actual production version of the 3.5 turns out.
All I've seen is a couple of pictures of a single sample blank.
 
Take it easy, y'all, we have only been shown Millit's very first attempt at a GSO, we have yet to see if Guy can teach them a thing or two ;)

The 4.1s have been in production for a while now, don't think those will be ground by Millit until a future run.

The GSO 4LE may be being ground by Guy himself at S!K, I am unclear on that... But I lock forward to what the future may hold :thumbsup:

As Fancier already posted, Guy isn't going to offer us something that he isn't absolutely sure about. It ain't gonna be a deep-dish blade grind, :p
 
SN is not the only one that will be upset/frustrated, I believe very few are going to be excited about this news/info if this is reality. Other key words come to mind at this moment but I'm trying to remain civil until we get some more concrete info from Guy or Ellie directly. Its one thing if this is a sample piece, my only suggestion will be is to bring in the proper equipment to cut them as we expect. This will not be a good move on their part if this is the long term plan (only my opinion of course), a lot of folks are going to feel let down.
 
chiral.grolim said:
Take it easy, y'all, we have only been shown Millit's very first attempt at a GSO, we have yet to see if Guy can teach them a thing or two ;)

The 4.1s have been in production for a while now, don't think those will be ground by Millit until a future run.

The GSO 4LE may be being ground by Guy himself at S!K, I am unclear on that... But I lock forward to what the future may hold :thumbsup:

As Fancier already posted, Guy isn't going to offer us something that he isn't absolutely sure about. It ain't gonna be a deep-dish blade grind, :p
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And this is exactly why this subject is discussed so it's not assumed by SKs that this is OK, look at the timelines for one thing. If enough of us bring this to light maybe something can yet be done before production moves too far and than all of a sudden folks want to cancel their order because they're not receiving what was expected. As far as 4.1s go how in the world will one know where their order falls in line as far as primary grinding location, that also goes for the 5.1s that have been offered on and off through various pre-sales, etc.
 
Sorry but I don't settle for the "if it's good enough for Guy" approach, I know what I ordered and what I'm expecting. Its frustrating enough for the timelines but I and most others deal with that but most would agree we don't want hollow grinds on our Survive Knives. My recommendation would be that they look at other vendors if not too late, hard to imagine there weren't other providers that could have flat cut these blades unless he was only shopping within the state of Idaho.
 
I am sure he was looking for the most consistent job he could get that met spec. :thumbsup: Note that the switch to Millit was for a reason, not random. As to the 4.1s and even the 7/7s, those have been in production with the blanks at the grinder and getting shipped back to S!K in batches, i.e. only that contractor is making this run. As for the as yet UN-cut knives (6, 12, 10, 4.5, and the next run of 5.1s), those are supposed to go to Millit unless something changes AGAIN, and I have a very hard time imagining Guy springing for concavity on those.

With the negativity that trolls BEG to feast upon and blow well out of proportion, I again advise staying calm and not jumping to conclusions after a single pic of a single sample blank. The one thing S!K could do with less of is unfounded anger or disappointment. Save that for the appropriate time. That is all.
 
chiral.grolim said:
I am sure he was looking for the most consistent job he could get that met spec. :thumbsup: Note that the switch to Millit was for a reason, not random. As to the 4.1s and even the 7/7s, those have been in production with the blanks at the grinder and getting shipped back to S!K in batches, i.e. only that contractor is making this run. As for the as yet UN-cut knives (6, 12, 10, 4.5, and the next run of 5.1s), those are supposed to go to Millit unless something changes AGAIN, and I have a very hard time imagining Guy springing for concavity on those.

With the negativity that trolls BEG to feast upon and blow well out of proportion, I again advise staying calm and not jumping to conclusions after a single pic of a single sample blank. The one thing S!K could do with less of is unfounded anger or disappointment. Save that for the appropriate time. That is all.
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I realize more info will come out on this subject but you should imagine this will cause some concern and if not voiced it won't be heard. I've always supported S!Ks despite the frustrated timelines but raising a concern such as a potential change to the primary grind of the knife (with no forward knowledge) is not acting out as Troll or being negative so I hope you are not placing me in that category. Why, after waiting nearly 3 years and approaching 2 years for a couple other knife models, would I not have a concern for which grind I might end of receiving on my Starter 3.5, GSO 4.1, GSO 5.1 and an SK6. The question is relatively simple to S!Ks, from which order# or batch of pre-sales, etc. are expecting to receive knives in either the expected flat-saber grind or potentially the subtle hollow-saber grind. Anyone in my situation or a new customer should/would want to know this fundamental question. This is not negativity, its simply being realistic.
 
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