Guardless Fiddlebacks

I wonder if all Hunters are guardless now, I hadn't noticed. Mine had a slight bit of guard.

DSC_6377_zps9724d64f.jpg


DSC_0843_zps486ba0a1.jpg
 
Comprehensivist said:
This is a good topic Michael. Thanks for posting it.

I think the first thing that needs to be established is a definition of what "guardless" means. With the guard area being the center of the knife, I define guardless in this context more from the blade side than the handle side. To me guardless means blades where the bottom edge of the guard at the ricasso and the back edge of blade at the plunge line are even with each other and the guard does not extend below the cutting edge. In this context, I would consider Vance's Karda to be guardless and MajorD's Hiking Buddies to be guarded (albeit small ones.)

I prefer guardless models because they are more cutting board friendly in that they allow you to use the full length of the cutting edge before you bottom out.

To me, all of Andy's knives have some kind of guard by virtue of the downward curve of the metal and/or handles in front of the forward pins of the handle.

Thanks everyone for the great pictures so far. Great topic. I would love to hear other opinions of what guardless means to you.

Phil
Click to expand...

If you put the cutting edge of a guardless knife on a flat surface (cutting board), there should be no light seen on the cutting edge, below the plunge line, next to the ricasso. That is what I have always considered guardless. There are different types of guards, but all would elevate the cutting edge when on a flat surface.
 
For sale purposes and just knowing that we're using the correct term(s), we should probably clarify the actual definition of guardless. Pictures usually tell the truth, but I've seen some sales that didn't include pics. My definition of a guard is- the barrier between the blade and the handle which prevents the hand from slipping forward onto the blade and also protects the hand from external forces that are usually applied to the blade during use. So basically a traditional puuko style blade is guardless. I could be wrong though.

Andy or Ken should probably chime in.
 
Joe Duder said:
For sale purposes and just knowing that we're using the correct term(s), we should probably clarify the actual definition of guardless. Pictures usually tell the truth, but I've seen some sales that didn't include pics. My definition of a guard is- the barrier between the blade and the handle which prevents the hand from slipping forward onto the blade and also protects the hand from external forces that are usually applied to the blade during use. So basically a traditional puuko style blade is guardless. I could be wrong though.

Andy or Ken should probably chime in.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you Duder. You basically described was my interpretation of a guard. That is why I mentioned that I thought the 3 (2 Hiking Buddy/ 1 Ladyfinger) I posted early in this thread were "semi" guard-less. Even though I don't think that is an actual term but I feel the blade/handle shape somewhat prevents your hand from sliding forward. I also consider it an integrated guard as opposed to a separate guard made of nickel, aluminum, etc... that are often found on bowies, old school hunting knives, Marbles knives and so on.
 
MajorD said:
I have to agree with you Duder. You basically described was my interpretation of a guard. That is why I mentioned that I thought the 3 (2 Hiking Buddy/ 1 Ladyfinger) I posted early in this thread were "semi" guard-less. Even though I don't think that is an actual term but I feel the blade/handle shape somewhat prevents your hand from sliding forward. I also consider it an integrated guard as opposed to a separate guard made of nickel, aluminum, etc... that are often found on bowies, old school hunting knives, Marbles knives and so on.
Click to expand...

We're rockin' in the same boat. IMO, the guard protects the user, not the portion of the blade closest to the ricasso.

Like I said before, I could be wrong though. The irony being that I've been collecting knives and learning about super steels, micartas, composites, geometry, angles and all the other stuff that makes a good knife for years and I still don't know the true definition of what a simple guard is.
 
MajorD said:
This is a Bark River that I would consider guard-less:
ULBC_in_Hand.jpg
Click to expand...

This may be true in a traditional definition of the term guardless.

However in Fiddleback land, I believe Andy's definition corresponds to the photo that I posted. You can find examples of how he uses the term in the following example (from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...leback-Friday-1-10-2014?highlight=guardless):

20140110IMG_1792-vi.jpg


One of those woodchucks is guardless, the other isn't.

Similarly, one of the below hiking buddies is guardless, the other isn't (from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ay-Fiddleback-Friday-2013?highlight=guardless)

20130329IMG_0149-vi.jpg
 
thurin said:
This may be true in a traditional definition of the term guardless.

However in Fiddleback land, I believe Andy's definition corresponds to the photo that I posted. You can find examples of how he uses the term in the following example (from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...leback-Friday-1-10-2014?highlight=guardless):

20140110IMG_1792-vi.jpg


One of those woodchucks is guardless, the other isn't.

Similarly, one of the below hiking buddies is guardless, the other isn't (from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ay-Fiddleback-Friday-2013?highlight=guardless)

20130329IMG_0149-vi.jpg
Click to expand...

+1 on this; IMO guardless is relatively subjective but in the context of FBF, the above examples are accurate!
 
thurin said:
This may be true in a traditional definition of the term guardless.

However in Fiddleback land, I believe Andy's definition corresponds to the photo that I posted. You can find examples of how he uses the term in the following example (from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...leback-Friday-1-10-2014?highlight=guardless):

20140110IMG_1792-vi.jpg


One of those woodchucks is guardless, the other isn't.

Similarly, one of the below hiking buddies is guardless, the other isn't (from http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ay-Fiddleback-Friday-2013?highlight=guardless)

20130329IMG_0149-vi.jpg
Click to expand...


Yeah, typically in the knife making world the curve down from the handle to the blade is called a swell or a drop by most makers I know. In Andy's style of knife making with a narrow ricasso, the ricasso transitions into an integral guard when it protrudes below the cutting edge of the knife, if it is flush it is considered guardless, and if the edge protrudes below the recasso it is called a dropped edge. Some custom tactical designs will incorporate both an integral guard and a dropped edge forward of that, but that's getting into a different style of knife.
 
mistwalker said:
I wonder if all Hunters are guardless now, I hadn't noticed. Mine had a slight bit of guard.
Click to expand...


When I was looking for examples of guardless vs guarded, I saw a guardless hunter that Andy described as "Rare". There was one a couple months ago that looked guardless in the picture, but when I asked Ken, he said it had a small guard.

So I think they're still normally guarded.
 
thurin said:
When I was looking for examples of guardless vs guarded, I saw a guardless hunter that Andy described as "Rare". There was one a couple months ago that looked guardless in the picture, but when I asked Ken, he said it had a small guard.

So I think they're still normally guarded.
Click to expand...

Given the nature of the work the knife is intended for, and the slippery conditions that may be encountered, I think Andy likely feels more comfortable with this model having at least a bit of a guard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top