Guards, JB Weld & Bruce Bumps Hidden-Tang thread

[Erin Burke]

I am currently working on full tang knife and was brainstorming ways to attach a guard. I drew up the simplified picture below to illustrate what I am contemplating.

The guard would consist of two pieces of 3/8" thick 416ss with a thin piece of copper in the middle as shown in the figure at left. Originally my plan was to solder all of this material together into a block (like shown in the second figure) but then I figured out for the ump-teenth time that I suck at soldering.:grumpy:

Then today I read through Bruce Bumps hidden-tang thread where he uses JB Weld for his guard. Would JB Weld work to securely hold my guard block together?

The rest of my drawing show how I would cut and file a slot in the back of the guard to fit over the ricasso area, how I would drill and peen (4) pins (two through each 416ss section of the block), and finally how I would begin shaping the guard. Does this seem like it would work?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Erin

 

[Patrickknives]

I solder, sand flat, apply flux to top, place small piece of solder to top, heat gently dont burn, when solder melts brush like crazy with brass brush until just a very thin layer is left. Put all pieces together with flux, heat gently until solder flows. dont touch until cool. Really cannot see a joint. I rough shape before putting on blade, 90% final 10 after pins are peened.

Nice drawing.

 

[James_Terrio]

Does this seem like it would work?

Sure. Especially with the pins as you show them, that would be very strong. At that point the JB weld is there mostly to prevent moisture getting in the joint. I can't solder worth a darn and use JB weld on my guards. It's pretty darn good for metal-to-metal.

 

[Dan Pierson]

I might look into a metal to metal glue that would be as obvious as JB weld. Something that works well in a thinner layer and isn't dark gray. The gray will be pretty obvious against stainless steel and copper.

 

[Jack O'Neill]

I might look into a metal to metal glue that would be as obvious as JB weld. Something that works well in a thinner layer and isn't dark gray. The gray will be pretty obvious against stainless steel and copper.

I agree with Dan on the gray color unless that may be what you are looking for . If you are going to pin and peen , clear epoxy should work fine . If not solder .
Just my 2 cents .

Erin , just reread your post that you suck , At solder I mean , get the paste flux/solder from pop's supply . I've heard nothing but great stuff about it . Put it on , heat it up and done .

 

[Erin Burke]

Erin , just reread your post that you suck , At solder I mean , get the paste flux/solder from pop's supply . I've heard nothing but great stuff about it . Put it on , heat it up and done .

Thanks for the heads-up on Pop's paste. That may be exactly what I am looking for. Of course, I have yet to encounter a fool-proof product capable of withstanding this particular fool.

My main concern is that the bond be secure, for while the stainless sections will get secured to the knife with pins, the copper spacer will only be secured by the bonding agent... solder or adhesive. I don't want to have my spacer come loose over time.

Erin

 

[James_Terrio]

Good point about the JB showing in the "sandwich". Sorry for overlooking that.

If you're really really concerned about the copper spacer slipping out, (and I don't know why that would ever happen) you could install a hidden pin or two near the bottom of the guard. (Through the copper and part-way into both pieces of SS)

 

[Jack O'Neill]

Thanks for the heads-up on Pop's paste. That may be exactly what I am looking for. Of course, I have yet to encounter a fool-proof product capable of withstanding this particular fool.

My main concern is that the bond be secure, for while the stainless sections will get secured to the knife with pins, the copper spacer will only be secured by the bonding agent... solder or adhesive. I don't want to have my spacer come loose over time.

Erin

Since it all will be pinned and peened I doubt it would come loose no matter what you choose to do . I myself would solder , the good thing here is that you can flood it with the solder and not care what it looks like at first because you will be grinding it down to shape it and all excess solder will therefore be removed . Just get the solder to flow from the top to bottom for 100% penetration .

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Learn to solder. It's not difficult.
All parts should be cleaned to bright metal immediately before soldering. Flux (Stay Clean brand), heat until the solder flows, remove heat. Use 4% silver-bearing solder for stainless.
Your sandwiched guard should ideally be hard-soldered together before installation on the knife. Hard soldering is more difficult. It requires red heat, true silver solder, and a different flux.

 

[logem]

I usually grind a notch for the guard, and then secure it with only one pin and solder. . . like below:

Mike L.

 

[GHEzell]

Good point about the JB showing in the "sandwich". Sorry for overlooking that.

If you're really really concerned about the copper spacer slipping out, (and I don't know why that would ever happen) you could install a hidden pin or two near the bottom of the guard. (Through the copper and part-way into both pieces of SS)

Something like this....
quick mock-up
I first got the idea of using pins like this from one of Karl Anderson's knives... I use them any time I use spacers, now.

 

[Erin Burke]

Something like this....
quick mock-up
I first got the idea of using pins like this from one of Karl Anderson's knives... I use them any time I use spacers, now.

What size pins do you typically use for this application? I imagine they must be fairly small. Do you taper-reem and peen them?

Erin

 

[GHEzell]

What size pins do you typically use for this application? I imagine they must be fairly small. Do you taper-reem and peen them?

Erin

Yeah, I use 1/16" pins, their main purpose is for alignment and preventing rotation. I go for a snug fit, both ends are 'blind' so no peinning. One thing not obvious in the image, the holes in the guard do not go all the way through.

 

[Erin Burke]

Yeah, I use 1/16" pins, their main purpose is for alignment and preventing rotation. I go for a snug fit, both ends are 'blind' so no peinning. One thing not obvious in the image, the holes in the guard do not go all the way through.

Gotcha... thanks.

Erin