Guilt trip Manipulators --- an answer

B

Bill Marsh

Joined
Mar 26, 2002
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Do you ever get manipulated into doing something that you did not want to do? Feel bad about having done it and never got even thanked?

I have a lot of time to think while I am rehabbing from this surgery.

I have this friend --- no, wait --- perhaps I should say, “I know this guy who is a master at getting favors done for him.

I just figured this out. When you understand the strategy, it is so much easier not to fall for his tricks. This is how it goes….

He would say something like, “You know I am getting back from a long trip on Tuesday after finishing a grueling job. I will be getting in at two o’clock in the morning at the airport and I just don’t know how I will get home. It is also difficult to get off a plane at that time and not see one friendly face.”

He does not pull this when I am recovering from an operation, in fact he has not even called me. But here is the strategy:

1. He knows I live near the airport.
2. He knows that sometimes I am up early in the morning.
3. He has admitted that he will be blown out from the work and the trip.

So my temptation is to say, “I understand. That must be awful. Let me pick you up, you know I live near the airport.”

I am using a generic and made-up example. But the idea is what counts. Someone complains about a need WITHOUT ever asking your help.

You offer to help. They accept. You help and they never say thanks or show gratefulness.

WHY?

Well, think it through. Did they really ask for your help?

NO ------ all they did was “guilt trip” you into something.

Did you volunteer to help them?

YES

Why, then should they thank you or offer a return favor?

“Guilt-trippers” are very good at this.

SO ---- is there a comeback? THERE SURE IS!

When someone is trying to guilt-trip you into something, just ask very straightforwardly: “Are you asking me to (whatever) “Pick you up at the airport at 2 o’clock in the morning and drive you home?”

You will receive a resounding “NO!” Because, and I do believe that most of this is unconscious on the other person’s part, they will feel obligated to return the favor or do something for you. However if you volunteer to help, they will feel no obligation.

If, and this almost never happens, they say, “Yes, I would like that.” Then you have an honest transaction that you can accept or not.

If you decide to accept, say, “I’ll do that, but you then will REALLY owe me one! I would expect the same from you should I ask.”

I have gone into too much detail for simple process, however, I would value your feedback when someone tries to pull this on you. Try asking the simple question. --- “are you asking me to ………..?”

Heh, heh, can't wait for Anne's mother to call!
 
i knew someone who was always doing stuff like that to me, sheesh! just because she was my wife didn't mean i had to pick her up all the time did it? after all , the airport was only a mile or two away thru the desert and the mine fields, she had feet didn't she, she also had two good arms to carry her luggage, i did warn her to pack light & take the metal detector.
 
There is a darker flipside to this: the individual who does you a minor favor without being asked, then requests a larger one in return. Should you refuse..."But I did [such and such] for you just the other day! WTF? Some friend you are!"

Unfortunately, I have to deal with this on a daily basis.

Personally, I feel obligated to someone who does me a favor whether I asked for it or not and I don't like to say no, but sometimes no is the correct answer.

Putting them on the spot like you say works, but there's an alternative solution: play their own game. Beat around the bush. Don't offer what they want, but hint about how bad their problem is and how great it would be for someone like you (but not you, of course) to help them out.

HIM: "It's going to be rough flying in at that hour. And how will I get home?"
ME: "Dunno, man, but that's rough. I can't imagine it. All that flying, and jet lag, and taxi fare...not to mention the traffic...sheesh, I'd hate to be in your shoes."
HIM: "What should I do?"
ME: "I don't know."
HIM: "If only I knew someone who lived near the airport, and could give me a ride..."
ME: "If only. That really sucks."

Note that by going this route, you're refusing to take ownership of their problems yet are acknowledging that they exist. They can ask or they can suck it up, but the ball is continually in their court. If they gripe about it later: "Hey, if you'd have asked for a ride I would've given you one, but all you were doing was complaining."

Also note that I don't do this to actual friends; if I perceive a need for something, I offer. I do do this to the folks I know that act like you described. If they ask for help I'll usually provide it, but they've got to ask first.

Sooner or later, they usually learn to ask. (Or not to bother at all.)
 
You might try my technique:

"I just sold a kidney to BruiseLeee. I'm incapacitated at the moment."
 
He would say something like, “You know I am getting back from a long trip on Tuesday after finishing a grueling job. I will be getting in at two o’clock in the morning at the airport and I just don’t know how I will get home. It is also difficult to get off a plane at that time and not see one friendly face.”

my reply..."Damn, that sounds like piss poor planning on your part" Turn and walk away.
 
shappa said:
He would say something like, “You know I am getting back from a long trip on Tuesday after finishing a grueling job. I will be getting in at two o’clock in the morning at the airport and I just don’t know how I will get home. It is also difficult to get off a plane at that time and not see one friendly face.”

my reply..."Damn, that sounds like piss poor planning on your part" Turn and walk away.
Click to expand...

I really agree with this. Whether he comes out and says it or not he's asking and pressuring with the guilt. Just ask all the time, and someone always doing them a favor. Sometimes in a round about way, sometimes directly, always for a little more than I could afford, and guilt/pressure to say yes was always included. Got burned a few times letting these guys crash on the couch till they get a place. Or borrow my car, etc. I started to notice how routinely someone was helping these people out. That is how I learned the value of the politely spoken word 'no'. Its wonderful, and powerful, and efficient. Once you've done it once, the power behind it increases ten fold. A simple polite 'no' works every time after that, and significantly changes the asking procedure. I use it very frequently now. At work, with the wife, the daughter, and with these charity cases who are always asking favors. I still do favors for people, don't get me wrong, but I don't allow them to become routine, I won't become a crutch. With my daughter a 'no' has obvious uses. The finite silence behind this word is a joy to my heart. Sometimes when my wife gets bossy, and she does, I say it out of the blue. It'll be something totaly simple and not out of my way at all, but she's hit her limit, so I say 'no'. She was taken aback the first time and we had to have a sit down talk. Now she knows its purpose, and actually checks the behavior without having a fight at all. Just do 'no'. Don't stop doing favors, and being a good friend, but sometimes, if it gets to be too much, do 'no'. It makes people stop and think without offense.
 
Well gosh Bill you guilt tripped me into answering this . L:O:L

\while there is the possibility the person is just socially inept this would become apparent over time . They may also have just created a :Faux Pas: . Do they reciprocate ? Do they return the favor or just zero in on a softy .Then you have your answer .

I call them politicians . There are people in the world who either by inflection or outright intentional wheedling could manipulate the devil out of his pitchfork .
There is also the needy as opposed to someone who just needs something .

A change of tactics is always good . This is especially true of someone you are dealing with who doesn,t change theirs .I like your approach . I prefer to think of myself as cooperative than helpful . If turnabout is not forthcoming on some kind of basis then I find better things to do with my time .I find I garner friends of the same kind with that outlook .
 
Manipulators and guilt trippers are not your friend.
I have known several over the years, my Mom was one of the best in all the land.
Those of us with the approval/people pleaser gene are ripe targets.

I would ask, So you won't be going into work the next day huh?


DaddyDett
 
Yah... technically, I think this would fall neatly into the "passive-aggressive" category of behaviors (correct me if I am wrong, Munk), a classic element of which is what you just described -- present a "dire" situation to someone, and wait for them to make it their responsibility. Then, the tacit "asker" in the situation can dispense with any claim of responsibility for the responder's actions.

How old is this guy? Most of the men I know who even exhibited signs of this had it pretty thoroughly drummed out of them by the age of twenty five.

But it isn't easy for you either, Bill -- just because the guy puts you in a difficult situation for his own convenience doesn't mean that you don't care about your friend. You are a good person; you treat the people you care about with utmost compassion (I would guess). You probably are willing to, and do, go to the ends of the earth for your friends and loved ones.

This isn't a flaw in your character, and it doesn't reflect poorly on you that you have helped this guy out. Rather, it's his own selfishness and willingness to use others that has painted the word "TARGET" on your forehead.

Don't change you; you aren't the problem. He is.

By the way, has he come by to check on you since the surgery? That should be a pretty big indicator of how you rank in his book...
 
Bro, I'm a cold hearted bastard when it comes to some people.
I threw a kid out on one of the coldest nights of the year a couple of years ago. The helluvit was that he had a ride but he was with a girl and wasn't willing to give up what he was doing to get what he really wanted.
I can't get into all the details because of this being a family forum but I can say it was the last time I've seen his face.
He was a friend of my ex-wife's son and I gave him and his daughter a ride to town one day a couple of weeks before that, guess he thought I was easy after that.:rolleyes: :)
 
Putting them on the spot like you say works, but there's an alternative solution: play their own game. Beat around the bush. Don't offer what they want, but hint about how bad their problem is and how great it would be for someone like you (but not you, of course) to help them out.>>>>>Dave Rishar



Yah... technically, I think this would fall neatly into the "passive-aggressive" category of behaviors (correct me if I am wrong, Munk), a classic element of which is what you just described -- present a "dire" situation to someone, and wait for them to make it their responsibility. Then, the tacit "asker" in the situation can dispense with any claim of responsibility for the responder's actions.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Broken H.


He would say something like, “You know I am getting back from a long trip on Tuesday after finishing a grueling job. I will be getting in at two o’clock in the morning at the airport and I just don’t know how I will get home. It is also difficult to get off a plane at that time and not see one friendly face.”

my reply..."Damn, that sounds like piss poor planning on your part" Turn and walk away.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shappa



I grabbed a couple presentations and then this one by Shappa. If you've made a decision to say no to someone because it's part of a pattern, that's understandable and I think most right. Being direct is best.

But if the 'someone' is a person you care about, or will be dealing with in the future anyway, I'd say something like Shappa has, and then follow through with, "If you can't get this done and need my help, I will. But I can't plan for you, and if you keep doing this I'm not going to help."

If you play at the game, and do the same or variations to them to 'balance' the scale, you'll end up in a pile of mishmash.

Being direct with the truth and noncompromising may be all the rebuff (read insult) and hurt they need to change their behavior. You may not even have to call them a dope.

All this kind of stuff used to happen to me more frequently. The older I get, the more direct I am and the less it happens.

munk
 
I would help a user like this at work because I am paid to do so.

I would do this for a close friend because I choose to do so.

I would tell any other user to go screw themselves to their face because I would not do it to them and will not tolerate it in return. I do not care what they think about it.

There. I feel better now.
 
I figure if I get that angry at something this small, I'm not having a good day.



munk
 
munk said:
I figure if I get that angry at something this small, I'm not having a good day.



munk
Click to expand...


I certainly agree with this my friend!

I am amazed by the number of people who use this ploy. I am also amazed at how quickly it shuts them down to just say, "Are you asking me to......"

I get this often from tenants who are late paying rent. A simple, "Are you asking me to pay your rent and late fees?" Really shuts them down and refocuses them on finding the money.

There is a common tactic used in communication or miscommunicatiom both in personal and corporate.

Anne's mother: "You know, the Chruch paid my heating bill for the month of January." Mother, are you asking me to pay your heating bill?" "No, of course not.


Someone mentioned how small favors done for you can make you feel guilty for not responding with bigger favors back to them. This is called "reciprocity."

There was a group called "Hare Krishnas" who really had this down. They would approach people at an airport and offer them a flower (this concept was actually designed by a high level marketing firm). One hand offered the flower. When accepted, the other hand asked for a "donation."

People made the monetary donation and then walked to the nearest trash can and threw away the flower which was then recycled by the Hare Krishna person.

People got onto this and began dropping the flower and grinding it into the ground with their foot.

The Krishnas went back to the Marketing Firm and got a new idea. Instaed of a flower, how about a small American flag? Soon, however the airport poeple got tired of the Krishnas and banned them.

But the concept of a free offer and then a close is efective. How about the people in the Mall food courts? Offer you a sample and then smile?

Anne and I like to go to Costco and walk up and down the sample aisles. We call it "Dim Sung." Yum!
 
I have a blood family member who relates very well to this topic.

He is not afraid to ask for a favor, and he knows I'm not afraid to say "yes" to helping him out.

The problem is not that I expect him to then find a way to repay me for these favors, it's that most times that I have sought him out to help me, he seems to always make an excuse, but then tells me "but if you need me, just call me back".

I am one that will drop just about anything I'm doing to help someone out (family, close friend, or even not so close aquiantance). This was always the case for me, helping this close family member out whenever he sought my help, or even when he just hinted that he needed some help.

But, I now do not offer to help this person, and will only be there for him if I see a true crisis.

This was the camel that broke the camels back:
I was at one of my sons indoor track meets this past winter. When it was time to leave, around 10:30-11:30 pm, myself, my daughter, wife, son, and one of his running mates, went out to my car so that we could drive home (we had offered to drop off my sons friend on the way home). It was surely a cold night, and Murphy's law was about to hit us. I turned the ignition switch and got nothing but a clicking sound! I tried a couple of times and realized that it was probably my battery (which I later found out was drained caused by a bad alternator). Since we had waited until almost everyone had left from my sons team, I did not feel comfortable asking a stranger for help. Being that my close blood relative only lived about 6-7 miles from the location that we were at, I called him and explained the situation to him. He then proceeded to say that he had been sleeping, and that I should ask around and see if someone would give me a boost. Then he said that if not, to call him back.
Man! he perfectly knew that if it were him calling me under similar circumstances, I would be putting on some pants and driving over to see what I could do for him!

But............. this had been his type of response to me in other situations,............. to say.............. "try and do this or that, and if all fails, call me back, maybe I can do something for you".

Yet, whenever he called me to ask or hint to me that he was in need of a favor, he would see me drop whatever I was doing to assist him.
Yes, even many times when he had asked me over the years to help him when he ever had car problems somewhere, I would jump to his assistance. I once drove over an hour during the night to meet him where he and his ex-wife had some car problems. All it took was for him to call me and tell me what was wrong, and right away I said,......... "where you at so I can meet you there".

I truly love this person, and up until recently, I would have bent over backwards (and have) for him. Even now, if he was to call me with a serious problem, I would go out and help him in any way that I could.

But,.................. unless it's a true crisis, I will now make an excuse to not help him out. I just got tired of the one sidedness.

It's not "one hand gets washed by another", it's "one hand washes the other".

I don't "expect" you to return a favor as if you owe me something,......... instead, all I want is respect and common courtesy. This persons actions over the years have proven to me that I was just being used, and that does not show respect "or" common courtesy.

I have done favors for many people that I did not know, or that I would probably ever see again. It was a courtesy given, even to a stranger. When I can't even get that same decent courtesy from a person that I love and know very well,.................. well, maybe one has to show that person that one will not continue to accept being treated like second class, while you treat them like gold.


Anyhows, cold as it was, I was able to run into one of my sons Coaches that had not left the building yet, and he was kind enough to give me a boost so that I could drive home.


Sorry for this being so long, but I thank you all for letting me get that off my chest. It actually felt good to do so.
 
My kids were like that. They are all grown up and have no trouble asking Dad for this and that. If asked to help in any way, they always found some reason to say no. My answer to this was to never put myself in a position to need their help, and limit my availability. A little distance works wonders, and after a year or two things have really changed and we can all get together and be glad to see each other.
 
Dang JJ that would have gotten a big oldk "get your sorry ass down here." From me. Maybe worse than that if the kids were more than earshot away. Whew. I don't blame you for holding some resentment on that one.
 
The_Shadow said:
My kids were like that. They are all grown up and have no trouble asking Dad for this and that. If asked to help in any way, they always found some reason to say no. My answer to this was to never put myself in a position to need their help, and limit my availability. A little distance works wonders, and after a year or two things have really changed and we can all get together and be glad to see each other.
Click to expand...

Thanks for understanding, guys.

Shadow,

Part of me wishes that my new found attitude will accomplish the same goal as it has for you, but another part tells me I'm better off leaving things be.

Something deep inside tells me that this person will probably never truly change his selfishness. I guess I would always wonder if it would all just gradually go back to the same old thing. Part of me just does not want to be let down again by this person, and just like you, I'm trying to keep myself in the position of not needing his assistance (now I would rather swallow my pride and ask a perfect stranger for help before ever going to him).

I know it's tough when one is talking about a situation like this when it revolves around a family member, especially since the person I speak of is my own older brother (older by a couple of years) :(
 
Something deep inside tells me that this person will probably never truly change his selfishness>> Jimmy J

And sometimes we help knowing that. There are lots of ways people are handicapped and hurt in this world, and it is always a good thing to recognize.

Even people I thought would never change have, some for better, some for worse.

When I read these kind of threads, I usually ask myself, "'and thou?"

The best manipulators aren't caught.


munk
 
Understanding when to help, when to give, when and how to support is very difficult.

Personally I try to give without expecting a return. If I can give, or help for the momentary joy of doing so, then I do. I can only do this by writing off any idea that the other person will reciprocate. Usually they will not.

I am not good at responding to emotional blackmail.

I have gotten past, in the 1960s I think, the idea that the universe owes me anything. I had friends who over tipped, gave to various people and causes with the belief that “one day the Universe would give back.”

I always considered this foolish ---- making “one-Way bargains” with people, God, the Universe, whatever you want to call it. I am convinced that it does not work that way. I confess that I don’t have a clear picture of HOW it DOES work. I just intrinsically know giving with the expectation of a great reward does not work.

It just makes you mean and frustrated.

Maybe it is more like “you reap what you sow.” But that does not really convey the answer either.

My companies are under one umbrella company – “Red Hen, Inc.”

This is named after a fable that my mother told me as a child.

A little Red Hen had a patch of ground near the road. One day she was digging in the dirt and couple of animals passing by asked what she was doing. “I am preparing a garden. Do you want to help?” “No, we are going to play” they replied and walked on.

A few days later, the same scenario. “Planting seeds, want to help?” “No, we are going to play.”

A few days later, the same scenario. “Watering my garden, want to help?” “No, we are going to play.”

A few days later, the same scenario. “Weeding my garden, want to help?” “No......”

A few days later, the same scenario. “Harvesting my crop, want to help?” “No......”

A few days later, the same scenario. “Grinding my corn to make meal, want to help?” “No......”

A few days later, the wonderful smell of baked cornbread wafted down the road. The animals gathered wanting some.

“No," Said the Little Red Hen. I like to think she thought a moment and then she said, “Cluck you!”
 
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