Gun experts, answers please

Gollnick

Gollnick

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In debate in the US House today, Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., pointed to a chart showing a semiautomatic 50-caliber sniper rifle and warned, "It is capable of taking out an armored limousine from a mile away."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133986,00.html


I'm no expert on high-powered sniper rifles. Is there such a gun?

Remember, the distinguished respresentative from the great state of California specifically specifies an "armored limousine from a mile away."
 
To me, the phrase "take out" implies that there's no limousine there afterward!
Maybe if it were an RPG...:)
 
As an anti-material weapon, it's designated to be capable of disabling a vehicle, but not destroying it. Just a single shot variant, if you will, of the venerable .50 cal machine gun.

Now, the new Barrett 25 mm rifle is another story...

Ed
______________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
The piece of metal that a .50 cal sends down range is roughly the size of a grown man's thumb. Its capable of cracking an engine block from a mile away easily, thus "taking out" ie disabling the limo.
 
Could it disable an armored car from a mile away?
For the sake of argument, let's assume Annie Oakley is shooting it and know exactly where to hit the vehicle.
 
He's more than likely talking of the .50 Barret, there are a few different models, both bolt and semi-automatic and several companies who manufacture their own versions.

It fires the same cartridge as the .50 browning machine guns (.50 BMG), and is capable of hitting targets at well over a mile.....when in the hands of a capable shooter. As you probably know, a typical 30'06 or .308 hunting rifle is capable of some astounding things in the hands of the guy that won at palma. All things are relative here, being possible does not mean everyone can do it.
The .50 is classed as an anti material round, used for sniping enemy targets such as jeeps, tents etc. Because it uses the same ammo as the machine guns, there IS armor peircing, and incendiary ammo available for it. It does not cause large scale destruction though. It is merely capable of peircing an engine block at LONG range as it fires something like a 600-700 gr projectile at well over 2000 fps.

Now before the sheeple start crying, lets toss out a few more facts. The typical .50BMG rifle weighs 30-60 lbs and is over 5 ft long. It produces recoil energy you wouldn't beleive, so much so that it is supposedly NOT safe to shoot it without the use of a muzzle brake. While it is capable of very long range, there is still an amazing amount of drop to deal with, not to mention the need for a clear line of sight over the distance.
Oh yeah, if a civilian wants to buy a true semi auto barret, its going to be over $10,000 and a special order to the company through a licensed FFL, because at least in this part of the country, the gunshops don't have em.

Does such a rifle exist? Sort of, like was said above, it will stop a limo, not destroy it.
Is it out there for criminals to get and wreak havoc with? Nope.

Its the same kind of sensationalist crap as when smith and wesson introduced the new .500 magnum. A pistol cartrige putting out the same muzzle energy as a middle range load 30'06. The gun grabbers tried to say that it was going to put LEO's in danger as criminals would be using it to shoot through their kevlar vests. The truth is that its 4+lb revover, typically with a 10 inch barrel, that costs about a grand and $3 per shot :rolleyes:
 
Fifty caliber civilian rifles have been around for quite a few years. Originally popularized by its long history of military use as the cartridge of the M2 Browning machine gun or "Ma Deuce".

http://www.fcsa.org/brief_history.html

Most civilian models are bolt action and chamber the .50 cal BMG (Browning Machine Gun) cartridge. Barrett makes a semi-automatic one if you have about $10,000 laying around. Not your average Saturday Night Special. Really a collector/long range target piece. Cartridges are about $5 each IIRC. Not a good gun to use in a mini mart stick-up either. Many of these guns are over 4 feet long and weigh close to 30 lbs. Very expensive and very impractical.

It is an extremely potent round and could certainly hit and possibly disable a car a mile distant. It has been used as a sniper rifle in recent conflicts and has confirmed kills at well over 2000 meters.

I don't know of any crimes having been committed with them. Terrorists certainly have many "better" options.

I'd never own one, but I don't see why they should be banned.

P.S. Matt said it all - and said it better, while I was typing.
 
IIRC, the 50 BMG (Browning Machine Gun) fires a 664 grain round at somewhere around 2600 - 2800 fps. It works out to a muzzle kinetic energy of around 20,000 lb ft. The 460 Weatherby kicks out around 13,000 lb ft at the muzzle. Any annual Guns and Ammo has these stats in the back.

It's a very impressive round. It could probably, as others said, disable a vehicle, but penetrate armor at a mile, I don't know. Probably would ring their bell, though!

I'd love to have one, but having shot my fair share of machine guns in the Army, it would have to be mounted on a tripod or a deuce and a half. No way it would rest against my shoulder.
 
I'm no expert on high-powered sniper rifles. Is there such a gun?
Click to expand...

Yes, and you can buy one if you want to pony up $3000-7000 and a buck per round, or buy the necessary reloading gear (your Rockchucker isn't big enough).

API and Raufaus rounds do significant damage to materiel targets.

The trick on the limo is:
1. Hitting it at 1 mile (1760 yards). If it's moving, it's going to be a lucky shot that hits it.
2. How armored is the limo? Unless you're on the presidential detail, the specs are not available. Other armor packages vary greatly.

Bottom line is that it's a load of crap from anti-gunners.
 
The .50 cal fires a IIRC 750gr bullet at 2900 fps. As other here have pointed it is capable of placing rounds on target at 1 mile. But, the number of folks that are capable of making a 1 mile hit on any given day accross a city with the winds, eddys and calculating bullet drop are damn few and far between. This kind of shooting requires a bench or at the very least an extremly stable shooting platform.

The biggest factor here is the man behind the buttplate. The gun will do it.


Steve
 
Plumber576 - You are one lucky dog. Biggest thing I've ever shot is a .458 Win. Mag. (unpleasant) and a .45-70 pistol.
 
Billy Dixon, battle of Adobe Wells (or Walls, I forget which). Knocked an Indian off his horse at over a measured mile, they went back after the battle with a sextant for an accurate measurement.

I don't know how badly injured the Indian was. I think he was using either a 50-70 or 50-100. That's blackpowder and iron sights.

It's also once in a generation...
 
sodak - Thanks. I've been looking for this forever (Billy Dixon). Couldn't remember the name.
 
panella said:
sodak - Thanks. I've been looking for this forever (Billy Dixon). Couldn't remember the name.
Click to expand...


My pleasure. Here is some interesting reading about the fight: http://www.oldwestlibrary.com/OWL/adobewalls.htm

Also, if this politician is so concerned about long range shooting, he ought to be worried about black powder. I recall an article from about 10 years ago where some gun writers measured the ballistics from some old-time guns, and found that black powder had MUCH less variation in velocity from round to round, greatly enhancing long range accuracy over "modern smokeless" ammunitions. The standard deviation for black powder was something like 25 feet per second, and over 100 fps for modern powder.

Maybe I'll just be quiet, I really don't want them getting any ideas from reality...;)

Signing off now, having too much fun...
 
IIRC, the 50 BMG (Browning Machine Gun) fires a 664 grain round at somewhere around 2600 - 2800 fps. It works out to a muzzle kinetic energy of around 20,000 lb ft. The 460 Weatherby kicks out around 13,000 lb ft at the muzzle. Any annual Guns and Ammo has these stats in the back.
Click to expand...


Not quite. The .460 Weatherby Magnum is around 8,000 foot lbs and the .50 bmg is about 13,000 foot lbs-- still impressive, though!

I'm not sure if 20,000 foot lbs could be safe without a recoilless dumping system out the back.

Also check out the .338 Lapua magnum. It is the first rifle cartridge that was actually designed for sniper work. It has the same range as the .50 bmg but is quite a bit more accurate and controllable.
 
I read that Carlos Hathcock used to mount a scope on an M2 Browning .50, and made a few spectacular kills,or one at least that was in the book about him, and that the .50 has a pretty flat trajectory for quite some distance. Also, the few times I fired a .50 cal when I was in the army, I don't recall too much drop as the tracers moved down range. I also recall the .50 cal "anti matter" rifle used by EOD used the same round. Is there really considerable drop as stated above ? There was extensive use of .50 cal rifles used by special ops forces in Afghanistan,and Northern Iraq, and I never figured on there being any issue with "drop".
 
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