Gun in a national park?

Z

Zero_Time

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Dec 28, 2006
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So, I've seen this discussion before, but here's my own situation, and I was wondering what you guys thought. The national park bill obviously won't pass before this happens, and so having a permit (I don't) would be a moot point anyway. I'm going to work in a national park this summer, for one of the conglomerate concessionary entities that operates food services. I will be in dorms with the other people working. I've heard a lot of them are jack-offs, seasonal drifters that go from gig to gig. This national park also has grizzlies, and I know enough that you can't run, climb or escape; so it would be between playing dead and fighting, and I don't feel very confident in being the next Ben Lilly, but also not having met the people I'm living with, it's nice to have options.

My question is, what would you guys do, how would you prepare? Dorm accommodations, wildlife, not being discovered if you would do anything? The way it works is it's a few days on and a few days off, I plan to spend my off days exploring around the national park. So, any suggestions in terms of prep? I'll probably be more than taken care of gear, food, and knife wise, but don't have anything like in the namesake of the thread, or any ideas of if/what would be a good choice (and I'm not independently wealthy, so picking up a .50 AE Desert Eagle probably isn't an option). Anyway, just wanted to pick some brains here for advice. The park doesn't really have internet except at lodges, nor any real cell service from what I know of.
Cheers,
Zero

Edit: Have trouble keeping track of my forums. Might be better to move this to W&SS.
 
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For obvious reasons, I understand why you don't want to mention the name of the park. However, some national parks in AK permit firearms for defensive use only (no hunting or target shooting). I rafted a river in Lake Clark NP, if I recall correctly, and we were permitted to carry firearms. You might want to read the regs for your park very carefully, especially if it's in AK.

In my experience, there's also a difference in how some NPs interpret their firearms rules. For example, some say no possession of firearms at all under any circumstances. Others will let you transport them unloaded in a locked case. Others require that they be "disabled" when inside the park. In one park I disabled a Ruger New Model Super Blackhawk 44 mag revolver by removing the cylinder. The rangers OK'd it. Although unlawful to re-enable it for an evening bear problem, I'd have accepted the penalty if I'd really needed it.

I saw one national park that had an exception to the general firearms ban for a wrangler in charge of a livestock pack train.

In any event, my point is that it's worth checking the regs closely and making some anonymous inquiries about how the rules are interpreted in your specific park.

DancesWithKnives

[Don't overlook the option of carrying a large bear spray cannister either.]
 
My advice. Don't bring one.

If you are out hiking with it accessible you'll get busted with it.

If you have it concealed you won't be able to get it out if you need it.

Right now carrying a gun in National Parks isn't worth it. Wait until they change the law. Or go hike on BLM land where it doesn't matter.
 
Personally, I would never hike in grizzly country w/o a gun. (Seen too many bear attack programs I guess. :D) I would also never carry illegally, so that creates some limitations. I am privileged to have a concealed carry permit that is valid in almost every state that allows such a permit. But one firearms violation would mean loss of CCW privileges, so I am very careful to stay within the law.
 
Having lived and hiked in griz territory for several years I can tell you this for certain, 99 times out of a 100 you will never get a good shot off at a griz charging. You'll only piss it off. The only thing worse than a griz attack is a pissed griz attack. My advice is make lots of noise when hiking a get some good bear pepper spray. Many people talk badly about it, but I've seen it work first hand.
 
There's probably not anything that's small enough to keep concealed which is going to be much use against a bear anyway. If you get something big enough to be effective against a bear you'll probably end up having to leave it in your room at some point and someone else may get their hands on it. Even if it's stored securely in a locked case they may just take the case figuring that anything that's locked up must be valuable and that they can get it open at a later date. As much as I hate to say it, to me it all adds up to being better off just not taking a gun in the first place (unless the particular park you're in interprets the rules in a way that makes it allowable as DWK2 suggested may be the case).
 
I did some research awhile back of what to carry pepper spray or firearms for bear attacks. There's not a lot of data available since bear attacks don't happen that often but bear spray seemed to be as or more effective then a firearm. It will also work against people. :-) And it's legal! Looks like a win-win to me. Bear spray is also cheaper and less time consuming then a handgun.
 
bear spray....get busted with an illegal gun and you might be roomies with a guy named bear in the state pen.
 
Righto... I do write a near complete version of my circumstances so I can get the best advice possible. I'm going to be working, as in, living in the park, and essentially in the park for a majority of my summer. So, it ain't just idle hiking, and I'd be in there for a while. I will certainly have bear spray on me, regardless of any circumstances, probably 24/7, given that it is such a weak defense I may compensate by having it near me at all times.:(
More advice is always welcome, I haven't stated what my plans are, but I am taking all advice into consideration.
Zero
 
I've never seen any type of dormitory housing that I would consider "secure." So, unless you plan on carrying your gun with you every minute of everyday I wouldn't bring one, even if allowed. Best to have a good knife (or knives) a can of Bear spray for when you are out exploring the park and a small can of pepper foam (that you can keep on you) for any people problems.
 
Bare Rib said:
I've never seen any type of dormitory housing that I would consider "secure." So, unless you plan on carrying your gun with you every minute of everyday I wouldn't bring one, even if allowed. Best to have a good knife (or knives) a can of Bear spray for when you are out exploring the park and a small can of pepper foam (that you can keep on you) for any people problems.
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Not that I'm pushing one way or the other, but if I did take one, it would be secure. Won't get into specifics, but I wouldn't leave it in the dorm in any way; no one would have access to it excepting me.
Zero
 
Better to be judged by 12 than eaten by a huge, furry, sharp fanged monster.
 
Zero_Time said:
Righto... I do write a near complete version of my circumstances so I can get the best advice possible. I'm going to be working, as in, living in the park, and essentially in the park for a majority of my summer. So, it ain't just idle hiking, and I'd be in there for a while. I will certainly have bear spray on me, regardless of any circumstances, probably 24/7, given that it is such a weak defense I may compensate by having it near me at all times.:(
More advice is always welcome, I haven't stated what my plans are, but I am taking all advice into consideration.
Zero
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I assume you'll be working for a concession in the park.

I'm pretty sure I know which park it is. I don't think bears are going to be a daily threat. The bears are more than likely not going to be congregating near the employee housing unless they are black bears.

Unless it's not the park I'm thinking of and you'll be in Alaska.
 
Personally, I wouldn't bring a pistol. Lets say its not allowed at the park, so you leave it at the dorm. If someone steals it from the dorm - if you report it stolen, you could get fired for brining the gun in the first place. If you don't report it stolen, thats a federal offense. My advise would to...
1. Get a can of bear spray, most will fit in an external water bottle holder of a backpack.
2. Learn First-Aid
3. Try to pack Ultralight, to cover more distances

just my 2 cents
 
Don't Take a gun The dorms are open to everybody, someone will find out you have one. Millions of people hike in the NPs every year without an incident.

We have a "daughter" that worked in Yellowstone one Summer. She saw one Grizzly the entire Summer. She did quite a few solo back packing trips and never felt unsafe. All she had were "bear bells".

Have fun and stop worrying about the little things.;)

Win
 
First, I would like to mention that I simply do not believe that a gun with an appropriate power level would be ineffective in a grizzly bear attack. If the hiker is practiced in the use of the gun and avoids situations where an attack could occur from very short range, he should be safe enough.

When my son was in the Coast Guard he was stationed on Kodiak Island. They were permitted to hike into the interior, but were required to carry at least a 30-06 rifle. Personally, I would set the minimum at .338 Win Mag. It's my understanding that many grizzly bear guides choose a slug loaded 12 Ga pump as backup. If a revolver is to be carried, I'd go no smaller than a 475 Linebaugh. A 500 S&W would be better.

Someone posted a U-tube clip recently showing a grizzly bear attack upon two men in a canoe in shallow water. The guide in the front of the boat drew his .44 Mag revolver and fired a shot into the water in front of the bear (a sow). The griz turned tail and left the area rapidly. I think the most significant fact about grizzly attacks is that there just is not enough data concerning all possible human responses to be able to support any generalizations. Given that situation, my approach, if legal, would be to go with maximum practical power in a firearm.

But, if your job requires activity in grizzly country and firearms are not allowed, you should research the bear repellents thoroughly. Pick the most effective spray in a high volume container that can fog a large area. Maybe even carry a backup. It's too late for research or second thoughts when a bear attack occurs in the field.

Good luck with the new job. :thumbup:
 
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I would not carry a gun. Its not worth it and as some have said an effective gun will not be concealable. If you still worried carry some bear spray and either carry a spear (think The Edge w/ Anthiny Hopkins) or walk around with friends that are slower.
 
High Desert Walker is correct about the desirability of a powerful firearm, if you carry one. My primary hardware when fishing in Griz country is a marine model 590 Mossberg with 3" magnum Rottweil Brenneke slugs. If I were carrying only a handgun, it would probably be my Gary Reeder African Hunter in 500 Linebaugh.

Although I like the big bores better in brown bear habitat, cartridges from Garrett, Buffalo Bore and a couple other smaller manufacturers can seriously improve the performance of 44 mag revolvers. I think 44s with appropriate ammo are generally sufficent in black bear areas. For lightweight backpacking, I've even carried a small 357 where no brownie encounters were possible.

DancesWithKnives
 
Zero_Time said:
Not that I'm pushing one way or the other, but if I did take one, it would be secure. Won't get into specifics, but I wouldn't leave it in the dorm in any way; no one would have access to it excepting me.
Zero
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You taking it into the shower with you too? If you take one I would never let it leave your body. Which also means no getting frisky with some cute lil'thing;) Is that a .454 in your pocket or are you happy to see me:eek:

orrey45 said:
or walk around with friends that are slower
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LMAO
 
Bare Rib said:
You taking it into the shower with you too? If you take one I would never let it leave your body. Which also means no getting frisky with some cute lil'thing;) Is that a .454 in your pocket or are you happy to see me:eek:


LMAO
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would really suck to have to say "yeah it's a 454"
 
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