Guns on the trail?

I gotta say that if I were hiking wilderness country with my mate or grandchild or anyone else that looks to me for their protection, I wouldn't consider myself much of a man if I couldn't protect them. Not to mention that our GOD put me in the possition of being their protector and if I fail in doing it because I just couldn't see the need to carry a weapon, then I've not only failed my loved one and myself, I've also failed my GOD and that just isn't acceptable to me on any level.
 
In response to Jokerswyld posts regarding the reason for NOT carrying a firearm in the boonies is because he has not yet been attacked by either two legged predators or four, and odds are he never will be, therefore feels he (and others) doesn't need one, I would ask, "Do you carry fire insurance on your home??"

I certainly do, although owning my home(s) since 1969, I've NEVER had to collect on the policy. Odds are, I never will need it (hopefully). How I wish I had the thousands upon thousands of $$$ I've paid into insurance companies, yet haven't "needed" the insurance!! Ask yourself, how many people do you know who have had their homes destroyed by fire, as opposed to how many people you know who have NOT lost their homes to fire?

But, just because I've never needed it, in no way, shape, or form, am I going to drop my Homeowners Insurance, nor, am I going into the boonies unarmed. Odds are, I won't need the firearm (again), but then... what if.... ?????

As for worrying about whatever the "Sheeple" and "Bliss Ninnies" out in the woods think of me and my firearm, on a scale of worry from Zero to Minus One, it would be about Minus Two. Afterall, a firearm out in the boonies, unless you're hunting, is useless... until you need it. Then, you never needed anything MORE in your life.

As for women protecting -- or NOT protecting -- themselves out in the boonies, I shall never forget something I saw in 1965. I and my girl friend were staying in a very remote, very rustic, old cabin belonging to a friend, way up in a canyon, in Kern County, Calif. The trail to hike in was rough as a cob, having been washed out by a creek flood several years before, although it was beautiful country.

We heard some voices out on the trail so went outside. Coming up the canyon was a women, hiking staff in hand, leading about seven or eight kids, on a day hike. At first glance, I thought it peculiar a woman would be alone, in this rugged, lonely canyon, with a bunch of little kids. Then, in addition to the day pack she was carrying, I saw strapped round her waist, an Army pistol belt and a Colt's Govt. Model .45 ACP in an Army holster.

Obviously, she was prepared to protect herself and the children who had been entrusted to her for the hike. I remember it distinctly because she was the first woman I'd ever seen, actually openly "packing heat," although I knew women who were shooters, including my girlfriend. Would she have used the Colt's to protect herself and the children, if attacked?? I'd bet the farm on it.

They refilled their canteens at our spring, we chatted for a while (she was leading some kids from her church group), and they went on up canyon. A few hours later, they descended, waved at us and disappeared toward the trail head. Did she NEED the pistol?? Nope, as nothing happened, it was just added weight. Nevertheless, she was prepared to use it if necessary.

The way I see it, the odds are you won't need your firearm for self protection out in the woods and mountains. On the other hand, if you DO need it, you quite suddenly are no longer part of the odds, you are now part of the statistics.

Best of luck to all "boonie busters," whether armed or unarmed.

L.W,
 
Wow, what a can of worms! Great discussion. I certainly respect all the opinions, and I am the first to admit that carrying a gun while hiking could help some people in some instances. Just a few points I would like to make about some things that this thread made me think about.

1. I agree that if you are hiking in a wilderness where large predators live, a gun is a necessity. But where I live the largest predator is probably going to be a coyote or wild dog (maybe a black bear or 2..I've heard of 'em being in 'bama)

2. It made me think of when I do carry a gun- In my car on long trips, hunting, target practice, in the city late at night, etc.
Sure, a gun could be useful during a hike. I don't choose to carry one. A gun could be useful at my work (schoolteacher/coach), where more people seem to be killed lately than on the trail, but I go to work everyday without a gun. What about the post office. That could be a dangerous place with those disgruntled employees, but I don't feel I need a gun to mail a letter. What about at little league? You ever see how dangerous some of those dads (and moms) get when little johnny is called out? Still, I would not carry a gun to the little league park.

My point is that anyplace could potentially be a place where you would need a gun. There is hardly anyplace in the world where a situation could not develop where you could benefit from being armed.

3. I don't understand why so many people feel that they need a gun to properly protect someone. Can you not protect yourself or family without a gun? Sure I would never bring a knife to a gunfight, but does that mean that someone who carries a 12ga. is doing a better job of protecting his family than someone who carries a .22? Or is someone carrying a 50 cal. better protecting his family than someone with a .357? Something to think about

I don't feel I need to carry a gun into church on Sundays, does that mean I am not doing everything possible to protect my family?

4. I fully endorse the right to keep and arm bears, and I may one day include a gun into my gear list. But as to the question of needing a gun on a dayhike or camping trip....is there anymore need in the woods than anywhere else. I am not sure, maybe. but I think it is silly to comment that someone is not doing thier job protecting their family if they don't carry a gun into the woods.
If you feel you must have a gun to feel protected that is up to you, and that is our american right. Personally I wouldn't mind if we went back to the days when everyone wore a colt on their side and had a winchester in the saddle...
Great thread everyone!
 
The decision to carry is obviously very personal. Jokrswylde do you think that lunch crowd a Luby's thought some idiot would crash his car through the front window and start shooting?
 
Jokyrswylde is a sheeple... they don't understand and refuse to no matter the facts, logic or nature.. better let him live his or her life the way he wants and suffer the consequences the way they pan out.
 
"Can you not protect yourself or family without a gun?" - Is this an ambush question?

As I noted above, 4 females and 1 male on the AT could not protect themselves. They all died.

Some AT hikers have physical disabilities which prevents them from going hand to hand with an attacker.

Some AT hikers don't have the size and strength to fight a large attacker.

Instead of attempting to hijack the thread, why don't we stick to "carrying on the trail."
 
Hi all, I'm new here. I would like to add a few thoughts, if I may. I think it is a very good idea to carry some type of fire arm when hiking or camping, law permitted. Out of a hundred outings it only takes one attack to become injured. I for one would rather have a firearm at that time than give into an attacker. I always carry a 22 mag revolver when I hike or camp. I feel that this caliber is sufficient in the areas I frequent. The sound of it going off would scary away most.
 
Remember, most of the national parks ban the carry of firearms, including such bear country as Yellowstone, Glacier and so on.

phil
 
jokrswylde, life is a collection of probabilities and chances. You indicate not feeling a need to carry to many of the locations you frequent. I agree that looking at the probability of needing a gun in church is very low. ...and we are prevented from carrying in a number of the locations you mentioned (schools, your post office -- my small town PO has no sign and no metal detector, most municipal buildings). My observation is that alcohol, tempers, and guns don't do very well in bars -- a coworker was shot in a bar! So here's my philosophy -- I carry when I can, don't when I can't, don't frequent places where people lose control of themselves through alcohol, and hope this reduces my risk of confrontation.

I carry in the woods (hunting obviously), backpacking -- with Boy Scouts (concealed), off-road motorcycling, and camping. I was hiking and fishing with my two sons in the Whitecloud mountains of central Idaho. As we were striking camp in the morning, a forest service worker (young man with a backpack and a shovel in his hand) came down the trail. He saw my Beretta 92FS openly carried on my hip and laughed when he asked, "what's the gun for, bears?" I told him it was for protection from any "two legged or four legged" creatures who wanted to harm us. He just shrugged his shoulders and kept walking.

While off-road motorcycling in the Idaho desert, my friends and I motored up a draw and were preparing to turn around and come back down (no exit). A four wheel drive pickup came in behind us and blocked our path out. Two guys got out and started walking toward us -- one had an ax and the other had a baseball bat. There were no trees or baseballs in our direction -- only us! When they were still about 40 yards off, I turned my bike sideways and rested my hand on my Beretta. They stopped, said something to each other, and turned around and left.

My point is, the gun is not the first line of defense, it is the last. ...but if you leave it home, your last line of defense is something less lethal.

Bruce
 
In jokrswylde's defense (no pun intended :D ), most outdoors people are not "anti-gun" nor would I put them in the sheeple boat...they feel they could defend their family with out a firearm. Whether that's marial arts, proficiency with a knife or even a hiking staff, there's other means other than a firearm.

My only point is that I carry all the time outside work (I'm military and live on post...which I wouldn't recommend). Legally I can't carry to certain events, Church being one of them (of course the pistol is left in the vehicle). Once you begin to rationalize when and where you do or don't need to be armed, you've gone down the road to Mr. Murphy's house.

I've carried a pistol concealed (when possible) for the last 10-12 years, and have never had to use it. Yeah, I also carry mutliple knives, lighter, flashlight...these have all be used too many times to count even in a month...heck, I even use the heck out of my Sliver Grippers :D .All are a part of my EDC, whether going to Wal-Mart, backpacking or even dinner.

With similar logic, some people would ask "why carry a spare tire", I've never had a flat, and I'm only driving in and around town...besides, I have AAA and a cell phone". Some people are comfortable with that, I'm not...besides a lot of people that get flats, don't even know how to change a tire, so the spare is really a moot point anyways...those are truly sheeple.

For me, carrying a pistol, especially when I'm with the family, is comforting, my right, and actually makes me that much more aware of different (less lethal) options or simple avoidance if faced with a conflict or confrontation. I find myself much more likely to avoid confrontation than agitate it. When you're deployed to a combat zone with a loaded weapon and an enemy willing to kill you, you tend to be a little more observant of your surroundings...I find that same thing with I'm carrying concealed, much more aware of other people and surroundings.

Avoiding confrontation is always my Primary defence. A good hiking stick/staff is always my Alternate camping weapon. The knife or axe would be my Contingent, and the pistol will remain my last resort or Emergency defense weapon (my 'ol commo plan acronym, P.A.C.E).

If jokrswylde was a sheeple, I wish their were more like him ;), he has no problems with people carrying firearms anywhere, he just has assessed that his own circumstances don't warrent CCW all the time...you can debate the logic, but I respect his opinion and decision. Heck, he's a football coach...I would expect there would be a lot of pissed off lineman if something happened to him...that alone would be a deterent to most :D

ROCK6
 
Well Joker, I'll tell you one thing. I carry ALL the time, unless forced to go through the new flying county jails called aiports. When hiking, in town, even at home. Call me paranoid. The backpack gun I mentioned is my extra pistol, a Glock 20 10mm, a little big for summer carry. I also carry a shotgun in the truck on an overhead rack, since the shotgun is the best close quarter fight winner. I normally have a few knives, and a smaller caliber gun, a .22 or small .45 on me somewhere, in one of my rigs or a pocket.

As for your personal choice not to caryy, that's cool, brother. I don't mind, or even care really. I respect those who don't carry. It's not my job to protect them per say, unless they are loved ones or total innocents in my sphere of influence.

The need to have a gun doesn't depend on location. It depends on the ill will of other people, and that can never be planned for. It can happen anytime, anywhere, and often does in the wild. Therefore I carry all the time, knives and guns, clubs, impact tools, whips, chemical weapons, tools, often a stout walking stick, yet you'll never know by glancing at me on the trail, or on the side walk. It's a sad reality of our times that responsible men need to be armed. In your job, being around kids all the time, it means even more. Good luck brother, and may you pick your carry times wisely and have the WILL to use your tools right.
 
hey sad dog -I am decidedly not a member of the sheeple community. If you had taken the time to read the post you would have learned that I own and shoot over thirty guns. BTW I just got an awesome Rem .300 A- bolt for deer season this year...might be too much gun for whitetail, but I don't figure I'll have to track them very far....

Anyway, I have had a pistol permit for over 12 years and have carried a pistol for that long. This post has never been about should one be permitted to carry guns on the trail, but rather are guns needed on the hiking trail.

The point I tried to make (not very well obviously) was that the majority of true hikers that I have met do not carry firearms on the trail, especially if you get into the ultralight hiking community. These guys drill holes in their spoons and cut the handles off of their toothbrushes to cut down on weight!

The hikers I have met along the way that do carry guns have not convinced me that it is a viable option for me. The majority carry their guns in their pack, with all of their other gear. I just don't see how this is a feasible means of protection in an emergency situation. If you can comfortably carry your gun on your hip (my waist belt on my pack would not permit this) then I could see how potential bg's would decide to look for other victims. I just have not seen many do this.

Whether you go strapped or not is trivial. Just make sure you get out there and enjoy the trail...they won't be around forever.
 
I noticed quite a few people here carry pistols when camping, I was just wondering is there much chance of lions, naughty bears etc mistaking people for lunch...or is it more a case of rather safe than sorry. Also are bears normally shy of people? And if you do see a bear...(apart from cubs etc, if it's on it's own) whats the chances of it trying to take a chunk out of you?

Also, really whats the chances of being attacked by people in the woods? Surley more chance in the city.
 
jokr, I apologize if I misunderstood you. It is my opinion that one needs to be more adamant about being responsible when out and about in the countryside. There are many stories about hikers and campers being mauled by bears and cougars recently, and a few by two legged predators. Granted, the chances are low, but when it happens to you, help, if the call can be made, is far away. Even in Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's fictions, Sherlock Holmes laments the fact that in the countryside, cries for help almost always go unheard. In the affluent areas of NYC, police response time is measured in the seconds... in most urban and surburban areas, in minutes... out in the boonies, response time is in the hours and maybe days.
 
A backpack's waist belt does not preclude carrying a firearm. One method uses an appropriate pistol belt with suspenders. The belt and suspenders are worn under the main pack. With adjustment the pistol holster or pouch is then worn outside and above the main pack waist belt, cross draw, appendix or strong side carry.

Military personnel have used a variation of this for years. They could dump the main pack and still have a pistol, 2 canteens, knife, spare mags, and a butt pack with survival essentials on their person.

Some of today's backpacks have a little area for outside storage of a pistol. It is not noticeable to the casual observer. One has only to reach around (sort of like scratching your own lower back) to access the pistol. Very quick presentation.

Bears can be nasty, especially in the springtime when they are hungry. Over the last few years there have been a number of attacks in the NYC area, say 50-75 miles northwest of the city. People have been killed or mauled.

As an aside, my daughter hiked in Ireland last spring. The only thing she worried about was getting to a pub at the end of the day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top