Gunting Questions

J

JamesA

Joined
Jun 2, 2001
Messages
696
Hey, folks,

I'm considering getting a Gunting as an EDC, primarily as a utility knife. The MBC aspects of it are a possibility -- we'll see how much money and time I have. Anyway, I have a few (okay, a whole bunch of) questions, and if you kind folks wouldn't mind answering, I'd appreciate it.

1) In lots of backthreads and several e-mails, I've read that when carrying a Gunting in your pocket, the ramp tends to catch on things, causing it to open. Now, for the life of me, I just can't picture this. Wouldn't something have to get up underneath the ramp and press -up- in order to open the blade? How in the world does this happen?

2) If it really does open unintentionally as often as it seems -- well, I wear jeans and a t-shirt and sneakers, every day. I don't own a belt, I don't like wearing belts. Am I out of luck? Is pocket carry really -that- impractical? Does Skunkworks make inside-the-pocket sheaths, and are they /that/ /much/ /better/ than simple pocket carry?

3) This one might have to be answered by Bram or Sal, if they're around While I'm extremely glad that the Gunting's blade is 440V -- the steel is 40% of the reason I'm looking into one -- why in the world is it? In a self-defense knife, wouldn't you want something that is easier to sharpen, and wouldn't the edge-holding ability be way down on the priority list? This is really a pointless question, but I honestly want to know.

4) Assuming you're into the MBC aspect, what's the overall consensus on the tapes? I know you can't quantify such a thing, but do they teach the techniques anywhere near as effectively as a seminar would?

5) Lastly, how lefty-friendly is the knife? I'm not looking for much, since I'm right-handed, but in an emergency, would opening and closing it be possible with the left hand? Or, frankly, at least opening it?

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.
 
I'm no expert, so I'll limit myself to commenting on (5). I've been using the trainer a lot, and have found it very easy to use left-handed. I'm even thinking of carrying the live blade on that side. Who knows, being able to open the knife on an adversary's body might be even more important on the weak side.

DPD.
 
James: I am amazed @ Byrons comments ( and he really likes the GUnting I think!)that he cannot keep his GUNTING closed...especially in his pocket..(your observation is very true..
something would have to press upwards on the ramp..)
And I know he writes of it often. Since I have carried the knife and its prototypes for lots of years and I NEVER opened it that way in my pocket, nor had it open accidentally in my pocket...I'm taking it @ his word..
Yes... I guess if one presses the ramp over the edge of ones clothing and keeps pressing you will eventualy ramp open it in ones pocket..
I let the tip of the ramp slide into my pocket..sometimes its over the edge..
Of course I don't press anything into my pocket..I place things there..
Since the clip is actually BELOW the level of the ramp its very hard for me to see how its done..cause the clip bottoms out before I get to the ramp..I'd have to rip the clip off. move it..or bend it out of shape to get leverage on the ramp..
I'm not able to do it but I guess I'm not doing it wrong-right? to get that opening..

So it doesn't open for me...
and I doubt its very often for anyone else..but what do I know..
Yes..SKUNKWORKS makes any kind of holster you need or want..

Maybe Sal should answer your question on steel cause you lost me..
Personally I want edge holding in any situation that needs a cutting edge..especially to save my life..
Sharpening comes later..AFTER I save my life..with the very sharp edge that stays sharp....

It opens left handed very easy..its a Spyderco..use the hole, use the ramp or KinOp it...

NOTE: Do not KinOp it off your own leg or abdomen..seems like people like to do EXACTLY what will make them cut themselves..please don't do it..Use the DRONE to find out what you should or shouldn't do...
 
Sorry if I scared anyone with my writings on the Gunting. If jeans are what you are wearing then accidental opening should not be a problem. It is with slacks or similar pants that I have the problem as the pocket opening is a vertical slit rather than a horizontal seam. Do you get what I'm saying about different pocket shapes?

I'm sure Bram is more familiar with the design: he created it! So my problems are partially of my own familiarity with the knife.

Yes, Bram, I do love the Gunting. From my limited communications with Frank I can see that I am asking it to do things it wasn't meant to do. It is my favorite knife (check my profile!) :D

As to the steel choice.... hmmmm... good question. I will say that the added chromium content of CPM440V is nice to have so that you don't have to worry too much about rust with the Gunting. This is a nice feature to have in any tool. I will also say that the Gunting has proven to be an amazing cutter. Part of this is due to the geometry and the handle leverage but it is also because of the steel in my opinion.

Hope this helps...

P.S. - Bram, do you mind me using a jazzed up version of your logo as my Avatar? It is further proof of my love of your knife :D
 
I would personally want edge holding to be as good as possible on a knife intended for self defense, for at least one reason. That is, I'd often use the knife for other things, and would want it to be sharp given an unexpected situation. Suppose I had to cut open some cardboard boxes and was later attacked. I wouldn't want to find out the knife wouldn't cut through the attacker's clothing. However unlikely that situation is, I still think it would be best for a defensive blade to have good edge retention. But I'm hardly and expert on knife defense.
 
Regarding the pocket: Doing a little more backreading and e-mailing, and I've learned that at least two or three of the people have problems because they're reaching /past/ the gunting to get something else out of their pocket, and then they're catching their hand on the ramp on the way back up. Let me specify that this wouldn't be a problem with me: I don't reach past my knives.

Regarding the steel: This question was asked under the impression that a dedicated self-defense knife should NOT be used for utility work. I have no idea how widespread this practice really is.

Thanks,
James
 
I was one of those who posted about the blade coming open in my pocket, but that was due to my loosening the pivot screw too much or letting it become too loose with wear as the knife broke in, take your choice. The soulution was simplicity, itself; a moment with the appropriate size of torx driver and I have never been bothered since. May I suggest that any others having this problem try tightening their pivot screws slightly. Mine will still barely do the "Spyderco Drop", but it will otherwise glide open smoothly upon request, but not otherwise. NOTE: Since I use mine as a utility blade, I have no drone and have made no attempt at a kinetic openning and plan none unles I meet somebody with a drone, then I might.
 
James,

As mentioned above, jeans and other pants with flat pocket tops will not cause inadvertent openings. Pants with slanted pocket tops, like slacks, will allow the horn to catch material as the knife is being pushed down into the pocket. I cut myself, and my slacks, before I understood this potential. Once someone knows of the potential problem with inadvertent opening it can be easily avoided. Clipped pocket carry is practical, you should just have a good understanding of the mechanics of inserting the knife. I carried my Gunting clipped in my pocket for months. Don't hesitate to clip your Gunting into your jeans.

Frank at Skunkworks does make a nice pocket sheath.

GuntingHolster.jpg


I carry my Gunting like that all the time. My primary reason is not fear of inadvertent opening. I carry inside the pocket because I would rather that others did not see or access my knife.

Someday I'll get around to sewing a strip of cloth inside all of my pockets that will allow me to clip the Gunting inside the pocket. This would be lighter and more convenient than the pocket sheath, but you have to modify all those pants!

The quality steel is a big plus. I use my Gunting for utility purposes frequently. Its edge holding ability is highly appreciated. My knife has to be sharp when I really need it.

I found the instructional tapes to be well worth my while. I do have some martial arts background. I found the Gunting adapted naturally to my customary motions. The seminars have a good reputation, so I suspect they're also pretty valuable. The Gunting is not unnatural to use, so most people do not find learning simple techniques difficult.

Left handed opening is easy. Left handed closing (one handed) is more difficult. You can do it by using your left index finger to release the lock.
 
James -- I find your opening post, and your last one sort of conflicting/confusing. I have zip knowledge of the Gunting, but your question(s) about blade steel have a wider application than just that knife.

In your original post, you began it by saying you were thinking of making the Gunting your EDC. Believe you talked about utility use of it. Then, in the last post, you talked about the Gunting as a dedicated self defense knife.

If a knife is a dedicated self defense knife, I agree with you that the quality of the steel probably isn't very important. I believe that is one of the reasons CRKT went with AUS6 on the KFF. It is a steel that takes an excellent edge. It doesn't hold it particularly long in comparison with some other stainless steels, but we're talking a significant # of cuts here. I find it highly unlikely that one could make enough cuts in a self defense situation to significantly dull a blade. Of course, there always is the potential of striking a belt buckle, zipper, pen, knife, change, or whatever when one stabs with a knife. I don't think one would likely be making too many slashes in areas with known or potential metal.

Utility knives by definition get a lot of varied use. They may be used multiple times per day, on a range of materials. If that utility knife is expected to serve as a self defense knife should that circumstance arrive, then by all means the blade should be made from the best steel possible, at least in terms of edge holding. Since many people have spoken of the Gunting as an EDC, then it makes all the sense in the world to have one of the best edge holding steels for the blade.

I think you need to truly determine the role your Gunting might play. If it is to be a utility knife, then be thankful for the 440V. If it is dedicated for self defense, then you're buying the design, and paying extra for the steel's qualities which you probably won't need at all.

Due to my physical limitations and mental attitudes, am not at all interested in the Gunting. I rotate 2 knives essentially dedicated for self defense should that need arise. One of them is, however, a very utilitarian knife. But, I carry 2 others that are as utilitarian or more so. My other dedicated carry is exactly that. I'd never use it for utility reasons. Still, both knives have ATS34 blades. Some utility use isn't likely to dull them to a useless stage. My utility knives have 440V and VG-42 for blade steel. The 440V knife -- the Native -- has 440V steel, and could potentially serve as a backup self defense. In my mind, it is the perfect EDC for utility.
 
Regarding the question of carrying w/o a belt; I got one of the Skunkworks Gunting sheaths (from SFO) and have found that the "J" clip style will work on a waistband w/o any belt. It is secure, does not come off when drawing the knife, as the seam on my shorts catches the edge of the clip. Just my .02
 
Originally posted by Bugs3x
I think you need to truly determine the role your Gunting might play. If it is to be a utility knife, then be thankful for the 440V. If it is dedicated for self defense, then you're buying the design, and paying extra for the steel's qualities which you probably won't need at all.
Click to expand...

I have "determined the role my gunting might play" -- I was pretty sure that I had clearly stated that the questions regarding the steel were pointless questions, just to satisfy my curiousity, and that the self-defense talk was hypothetical. Terribly sorry if I spoke in a way that was easy to misinterpret.

Let me try it again, just in case I confused anyone else. Here's my hypothetical question which does not apply to my situation: If most of the people who buy the Gunting are going to use it for self-defense, and (so I've been told) self-defense knives should /not/ be used for utility work, then why bother making people pay extra for superfluous steel qualities?
 
Got a wonderfully informative e-mail from Frank Olesen, that made it clear to me why the extra strength in the blade was necessary.
 
I love the Gunting (and master Bram...:) )

But there can be a problem: when carrying IWB without a holster (due to clothing restrictions) when one is taking the pants off - then the blade can catch something on the way down...and open up just a little - which is enough to have the tip stick into one's leg (for instance..)

It happened to me once - and I have been waiting eagerly for my pocket holster - the one Mr. Wallace posted earlier...

I know - this sounds stupid and Bram is going to be on my case...but it did happen and it looks like a "real" enough problem to post...

:o

Oh - and Brian Lavin advice is sound - it is working!!
 
Hi James. some really good info here. Try to keep in mind that the Gunting, unlike many models, is a new species. When doing new things, there are many questions that continue to come up as a species evolves.


1 & 2) IMO, at it's current size, the Gunting would not be easy pocket carry without the pocket sheath (unless clipped). The ramp does offer a lever to open the knife and the lever doesn't know if it's supposed to open or not. Being a large handle with a large lever to "catch" on things, I believe is where any pocket carry problems have come from. We have had thoughts of a smaller version that might more easily dropped into a pocket.

3) When making a new design, we must select a steel. What is the best steels we're working with right now is often the answer. If we need the model to be a price point knife, then AUS-6 is the best bang for the buck, but it only has .65 Carbon. (CRKT uses AUS-6 because it costs a lot less.) AUS-8 and GIN-1 are very good steels, but the edge retention is not like CPM.

Edge retention is a big issue if you are cutting. The "super steels" are super because of edge retention. If you are going to use this knife for cutting and not just dedicateed self defense, then, as mentioned, the better steel is always the better choice. The odds of a button, belt or zipper "taking" an edge is a "long shot", but so is being in a position to need to defend yourself in the first place.

4) IMO, the tapes are good, but there is nothing like having the inventor/designer showing the tool in person. When you study with bram, you REALLY learn how to make the most use of the benfits of the tool.

sal
 
A clarification, since this time I was definitely being unclear: when I said pocket carry, I meant clipped to the pocket. Sorry about that.

However, Sal's reply got me to thinking: the only time I've had problems carrying a knife /in/ my pocket is when the handle was too small, and the knife constantly ended up horizontal, in the bottom of my pocket. Not sure how a longer handle would affect this; when my Gunting gets here, hopefully before the end of the week, I'll have to check it out. I wouldn't ever carry it that way, but I'd like to know how it works.

While I'm posting: Thanks ever so much, Howard, for posting a picture of the pocket sheath. Might have to get one of those -- how much do they cost, do you (or does anyone else) know offhand? And can I get one in black? If nobody here knows, I'll just go talk to Skunkworks directly.

Gratefully,
James
 
James,

I honestly don't remember the cost for the holster. I was searching through old e-mails trying to find it, but I think I did the negotiations over the phone. Best to talk to Frank directly. I do remember that the cost was reasonable.

Frank did my holster in olive green because that is what he had on hand in the required thickness. He may have some black available now. I told him the color didn't matter, since it would be in my pocket anyway.
 
Not to P.O. Bram or anyone else but the horn IS similar to the Jot Singh Kalsa. AND I still have the jean shorts with NUMEROUS slits in it from the Jot to prove my um hmm point. The Gunting's horn actually has more "traction" places that could hang up and open in your pocket. My personal feeling is that the Gunting stays closed alot better than the Jot. AND I've never had my Gunting open in my pocket unlike my experiences with the Jot design.
John
colobbfan
 
I have two pairs of pants that have a 1" vertical slit due to placing the Gunting into the pocket. It is not a design problem, you just have to be careful when putting it into your pocket. The Gunting has NEVER opened after it was in the pocket. It just takes an extra second to make sure that the ramp has not snagged on anything during insertion. A very well designed knife that for me fulfills my desires for an EDC.
Dale Richmond
 
Well said Dale - "you just have to be careful when putting it into your pocket"...:)

I carried a NAA mini-revolver in a front pocket holster as a back-up weapon for a number of years, and I treat my Gunting with the same respect that I did it...so far, no problems. I guess that I was fortunate to get one that wasn't a true "self opener"!

Thanks Bram and Sal...wonderful knife!
 
I would like to extend my thanks to everyone in this thread, and especially to the people who I spoke with through e-mail (or who e-mailed me). I'd list them, but I know that some folks don't like that kind of attention.

I got my Gunting, and I absolutely love it. Absolutely everything I was worried about worked out fine; it's light enough that I don't notice it when it's in my pocket, and when clipped to my pocket or to my waistband, it's very comfortable; it almost disappears. And I absolutely love the compression lock.

I'll write up my thoughts more completely when I get back to my own computer.

But, unsurprisingly enough, now I've got one more question, to which I can't find an answer back in the archives:

How do I go about getting the tape "Bram Frank Introduces the Gunting," or whatever it's called? The one that's not a part of the three-tape set. Someone mentioned in a post from a long time ago that Spyderco will send it to you free, but I have a hard time swallowing that, since if they did, I'd think that they'd package it with the knife.

Anyone have a clue?

Ever so gratefully yours,
JamesA
 
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