h1 hardening....

S

snakedad

Joined
Sep 6, 2008
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56
I feel really stupid here...how do yoy get any steel to harden w/ no carbon??

FACT:the most durable substance and the hardest in existence is a diamond---pure carbon:yawn::yawn::jerkit: duhhh...you all know that.

I am really interested in how this works

will we ever see a no rust knife that performs truly as well in all areas as a carbon bearing steel??

SORRY--just asking
 
All steels have carbon. Steel = carbon+iron. So called "carbon steels" are generally reffering to steel that are just that, steel. No other alloying ingredients. Stainless steels are "carbon steels" that, among other elements, also contain (generally) Chromium in order to achieve a stainless quality.

In my opinion (by no means expert) I think that many stainless steels perform like carbon steels, but nothing comes close to a good tool steel, O1 and D2 are simply awesome. just my 2cents on this one though.
 
H-1 does contain carbon. At 0.15% it contains the same concentration as 420J2. The nitrogen which is also added acts in a similar fashion as carbon for hardening the steel, but without raising the rust potential. As I understand it, H-1 is not heat treated at all, it is entirely work hardened. Sal (who has forgotten more about steel than I'm ever likely to know) once mentioned that H-1 is technically a ceramic.
 
So let me see if I get this right--the more u use H1 the harder it gets--the more stress its put under the more compacted the mloecules in the edge become.

Kinda like the difference in non-ferrous and ferrous metals where annealing is concerned. If Im off base here someone let me know.

So lets just say my aqua salt sees daily hard use for X ammount of time---does that mean that it will become so hard it would require some form of cryo treatment to reduce brittleness--

Brings up qusetions--thanx for the help

I also think that steels like 01 and d2 will always outperform any stainless on certain levels--from what I understand alot of metallurgists call d2 a semi-stainless
 
So lets just say my aqua salt sees daily hard use for X ammount of time---does that mean that it will become so hard it would require some form of cryo treatment to reduce brittleness--
Click to expand...

No. There is a difference between the plain edge and serrated edge in hardness levels supposedly but I don't think it's quite as dramatic work hardening as you describe though. Joe
 
Whew--ok that helps thanx Mastiff. I finally got the Aqua a lot sharper. An off ground bevel most likely. Stuff scratches easy though
 
I've noticed that mine go longer between sharpenings as they get older. This is pretty good evidence of work hardening. I'm hanging around a metallurgy lab right now, so when I have some free time, I'll try to get some pics of the grain structure on the spine vs. the blade. Don't know if I can upload pics from the iPhone though, so we'll see...
 
More subjective "proof" here, but I have certainly seen evidence of work hardening in my Salt 1, which I EDC at work. I was initially somewhat disappointed in its performance against cardboard (which I cut a good bit of). However, after about three or four months of deferring to other knives for really tough boxes, I gave the Salt another try. The difference was huge. Work hardening, along with some slight convexing from freehand sharpening, had turned it into a cardboard-eating machine! It is now easily a match for its VG-10 cousins. It's still not ZDP- or D2-class, but it's completely rustproof and goes back in my pocket with no thought of what might be eating through the blade.

Okay, that last part isn't really true... but if I wasn't so OCD about knife care I would just stick it back it my pocket without ever cleaning it!
 
Hi Snakedad,

There is still much we don't know about H1. Lab tests are good, but there is nothing like real world testing. Much of it we learn from our customers.

We do know that it does perform well and it doesn't seem to corode at all. The steel(?) is work hardened in the processing. Whether or not it work hardens in use is still not proven, although many have made this claim.

Whether or not it reaches a critical hardness is still not determined. The serrated edge Salts tested (micro hardness testing) at over Rc65.

Spyderco often "ventures where none have gone before" so for us, it is still a work in progress.

I will say that a problem with many "carbon steels" is corrosion. What most don't realize is that corrosion occurs twice as fast at the edge of a knife because both sides of the edge are exposed. Even with coated or plated blades, the edge is still exposed. Sharpening a rusted edge takes much longer than just sharpening a dull edge, so there are performance problems that can occur with carbon steels just because of the edge corrosion.

Most methods of removing rust from the edge (abrasive pads, etc.) will also remove the edge, so sharpening the edge is the best way to remove rust from the edge.

Hope that helps.

sal
 
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