H1 Steel Experts?

mete said:
'Work hardening' is also called 'cold working' , heat will tend to soften it [as in stress relieve and anneal..
Click to expand...

Yep, thats true. But the major factor of these kinds of steel is that the cold rolling itself transforms a percentage of the material to martensite. So basically, the higher reduction in coldrolling (without intermidiate heat relaxation) the higher the theoretical hardness. Apart from that the H1 could also have some precipitation hardening effects which is iduced by heat treat. but only the anealing step, not the full H/T cycle.

If H1 increases hardness by grinding, as such, I would be VERY surprised. Only if it's a dry grinding which induces heat high enough for an anealing effect to start the precipitation hardening. If it's a wet grinding without heat I dont believe that the grinding contributes to the hardness. Only heat and cold deformation affects steel. Grinding is not cold deformation.

The hardness of H-1 is somewhat of a mystery to me, anything over 57 HRC for a PH hardened steel (or a spring steel) is higher than I have ever seen, thats why martensitic steels are used for knives.
 
That then is not 'work hardening ' in the normal sense .It's deformation induced transformation. Take a 1/4" rod of zinc, hold it next to your ear and bend it .You will hear the transformation to 'deformation twins' which happens at the speed of sound.
 
From what I've seen in shops and factories, blades are final sharpened on dry wheels or belts. Depending on steel type, the heat generated can affect the temper and /or hardness at the very edge even though excessive heat to the whole blade is generally avoided so the temper won't be compromised. It's my belief that such final sharpening may be the culprit of edges that chip easily on a new blade that is otherwise properly heat treated and tempered. That's why I don't judge a blade that seems to chip excessively until I've fully resharpened it at least twice. This removes the original very very thin edge metal that may have been a little overheated on the belt or wheel.
If I'm wrong in this belief perhaps someone can set me straight. Regards, ss.
 
HoB said:
Considering that H-1 is a precipitation hardening steel, that is rather likely :D.
Click to expand...

Yes it is. But for many PH steels (not all!) the starting HRC is about 30 and it comes to 45-50 with cold rolling and another 2-10 points with anealing (the PH effect). H1 has no Aluminium or Titanium which are PH drivers. So I'm not sure how much it PHs.

It does however contain lots of Silicon which I dont know if it's a PH driver or not. But if it is true that H1 goes to 60+ I guess it must be.
 
Hey NLite,

I was thinking about your question some.

There are quite a few materials that are non corrosive, cobalt based, titanium, nitrogen steels, etc. There are also quite a few really good custom makers that could make your ideal solution in the material of your choice.

sal
 
Hi Sal.

Thanks for the response (and the continued input).

I received my Salt 1 last night and look forward to seeing how it performs.

Having been out of the knife "scene" for over 10 years, I have no idea where to start in terms of your suggestion. Do you have any maker and/or material to recommend?

Over the past few days I have been reading about infi steel, and many people seem to like it, but it is corrosive. What steel has the properties of infi and is non corrosive?

I also read a post about a titanium knife made by Mission Knives. While this looks interesting, I don't know enough about the material to determine whether or not it will meet my needs.

Any additional info you can provide would be much appreciated.
 
NLite said:
Hi Sal.

Thanks for the response (and the continued input).

I received my Salt 1 last night and look forward to seeing how it performs.

Having been out of the knife "scene" for over 10 years, I have no idea where to start in terms of your suggestion. Do you have any maker and/or material to recommend?

Over the past few days I have been reading about infi steel, and many people seem to like it, but it is corrosive. What steel has the properties of infi and is non corrosive?

I also read a post about a titanium knife made by Mission Knives. While this looks interesting, I don't know enough about the material to determine whether or not it will meet my needs.

Any additional info you can provide would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

I don't mean this condecending at all, but I think in order to avoid disappointment, I think you have to lower your expectations a bit. There is still no magic bullet invented and stainless steels have in general still a substantial lower toughness than carbon steels. If there would be a material with the properties of INFI but stainless, no one would buy INFI anymore. Everything is a trade-off. Spyderco, in collaboration with Ed Schempp are in the process of developing a competition chopper which will be insanely tough, but will also not be made from a stainless steel. Titanium knives have great toughness and are fully corrosion resistant but their hardness is substantially lower than that of common steel and edgeholding is a lot lower as well and so is strength (it will bend more at a given thickness, even though it will not break). Again, a trade-off.

Then again, if your Buck Special has served you well, you should be able do find something among the more "modern" bladesteels that should serve your needs and which is a clear improvement. You also have to keep in mind that within certain limits you can trade cutting ablility for overall strength of the blade. Even though most stainless steels are a factor of two less tough (roughly, depending on steel it can be as much as a factor 4-6), a saber ground stainless blade made from 1/4" stock is still not easy to break. It is not an elegant approach but might be exactly what you are looking for.
 
Hi HoB.

Thanks for the response. I understand what you are saying. I was just hoping that technology had advanced far enough to address the trade off. That was why I am so interested in H1 steel. Maybe a 1/4 inch thick H1 blade would work for me, but I have no idea how to get the metal, or who to make the blade.
 
NLite said:
Howdy.

I have been lurking around a while, and was hoping that someone could answer a few questions. I live in southeast Alaska, along the coast. We get anywhere from 60-90 inches of rain a year, and rarely see more than a week of sunshine in the summer. We basically have two seasons: snow and rain. Those who live a little farther south of me only have one season: rain.

For the past fifteen years I have had to either carry a somewhat brittle stainless steel knife in the field (Buck 119 Special), or a fairly stronger carbon steel knife (CS SRK). I prefer the stainless due to the ever present rust issue (yes, even stainless rusts here), but was hoping that enough time had passed to try somthing new.

I have been reading some posts here and there about "H1" stainless steel, but have not seen anything about how well it holds up strength wise. I have seen photos of Spyderco's upcoming H1 utility knives, and a H1 camp knife, but besides the Spyderco salt series (and the TUSA H1 dive knife ), nothing seems to be in production.

Does anyone have any info on how well H1 holds up in a fixed blade?

I have looked at some infi blades, but am concerned that they will not hold up (rust-wise) over time. I need a strong, rust resistant utility knife in a constantly wet marine enviroment (hopefully stronger than a Buck 119 Special - I have broken them just cutting wood).

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Um, to take a step back, NLite says he broke a Buck 119. That's a fairly hefty blade. I have one. I got mine in the '60's so it's 440C I think, but IIRC a 15-year old 119 would be made from 425 steel, yes? Going to be difficult to find a steel that is tougher than that. Difficult to find one more stainless as well. H1 may address the staining issue, but tougher than 425? Got no data. Does anyone else?

If this was Alaska, may I ask what the temperature was when you broke the blade? Materials get brittle at subZero temps. Maybe we are addressing the wrong problem?
 
Hello knarfeng.

I broke the Buck Special on a "warm" summer day - about 60 degrees F. I have lived farther North (50 below in the winter), but prefer the temperate rainforest region of SE Alaska.
 
OK there goes that theory.

Still got no ideas about a tougher more stain resistant alloy than a Buck made of 425. I don't have a lot of use for big choppers. I don't object to them, but my lifestyle/usage doesn't require one. I have rarely used my 119 in all those years.

oh well, let us know how the Salt works out for you.
 
Even with its low carbon content, I'm sure there are tougher tool steels and low alloy carbon steels, such as L6, 8670M, 5160, S7, maybe 1055. However, none of thesehave anything close to stain resistance.

Have you looked into a coated blade? Technology in coatings may have addressed the problem of corrosion. The Busse crinkle coat is reportedly quite tough and abrasion resistant. There are some coatings that can be done at home in the oven, so you can touch them up if you need to, or redo the entire thing. Sandblasting is a must on the coating I used, so that may be a barrier if you want to do it yourself. If corrosion resistance and toughness are your primary concerns, there is more than one way to get there.
 
Thanks for the input knarfeng.

me2, I have seriously looked at Busse knives. Coatings do seem to be one option, and I may go that route if nothing else presents itself. I may just wait a while longer & see if H1 becomes more readily available. Perhaps someone will post some testing results (flexing, etc..), so I can see if it is a viable solution.

In the meantime I will continue to just carry a 119 on my person, and a CS SRK (or other stronger knife) in my pack for backup (wrapped in plastic).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top