H1 steel

T

thermalwedgie

Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
33
I just recently purchased a spyderco ladybug in h1steel and so far I am happy with the steel excelent corrosion resistance, but what im wondering about is the edge retention. Any general stories about your experiences with the steel would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
I have a plain edged Pacific and a serrated Salt1. The plain edge has very poor edge retention, needs touched up daily. It does take a nice fine edge and is very easy to touch up. The serrated blade seems much better.

I replaced a EDC Buck Odyssey with the Spyderco Pacific Salt and was not pleased at all. Bucks 420HC has much better edge retention. If you live or work on or near the ocean and rust is problem the Salt would be a great knife.
 
You buy H1 for it's corrosion resistance not for edge retention ! It's apparently the most salt water corrosion resistant blade steel.
 
Edge retention should be a secondary consideration when using H1. You're using it for its corrosion resistance, at which it excels. Not the greatest edge holder out there, but H1 is very simple and quick to sharpen, and it gets very sharp.
I 'll take the trade off and never concern myself when using H1 while boating:)
 
The more you use, sharpen, use, sharpen H1, the better the edge holding gets. With the extra grinding needed for serrations, it has excellent retention out of the box. Plain edge needs work. Luckily, it's also really easy to sharpen. In addition to the corrosion resistance, it's also an extremely tough steel. Whether it's the right choice for you depends on what you're doing with the knife.
 
IUKE12 said:
Edge retention should be a secondary consideration when using H1. You're using it for its corrosion resistance, at which it excels. Not the greatest edge holder out there, but H1 is very simple and quick to sharpen, and it gets very sharp.
I 'll take the trade off and never concern myself when using H1 while boating:)
Click to expand...
The main reason i got the H1 steel is for its corrosion resistance, sorry if the post was misleading, but im just wondering if i may need to take a sharpener with me if i go camping.
 
My Pacific salt is my swimming in the Gulf knife. No rust. From what I understand it's impossible for it to rust.
 
thermalwedgie said:
does anybody have any good experience with the corrosion resistance?
Click to expand...

There is no carbon in the steel , no carbon = no rust. What more do you need?
As far as work hardening goes, edge retention is best on the serrated models vs plain edge. I honestly cannpt see the Ladybug knife doing much in a camping setting. Might be too small for food prep, definitely cannot process firewood, etc. Make sure you have a fixed blade with you at least.
 
Definitely bring a stone with you if camping. I use the Sharpmaker rods freehand, and find that the medium works well on plain edge H1. It gets the knife shaving sharp with no problems.
 
I have a plain edge Salt 1 that I use as a money clip so I always have it and it gets used and sharpened a lot. I go out on the boat in the gulf a lot and works great for that. But the edge holding is terrible, at least compared to modern knives. It has the worst edge holding of any name brand knife I have owned. I haven't noticed the retention get any better and have sharpened it a lot. If I were to get another one I would try a serrated version. The steel does get very Sharp and easily tree tops hair and works great as a boat knife. Just doesn't make a good EDC knife unless you can sharpen it every day or even throughout the day if used a lot.
 
RevDevil said:
There is no carbon in the steel , no carbon = no rust. What more do you need?
Click to expand...

Sorry brother, but that doesn't make any sense. Rust is, after all, iron oxide. The carbon doesn't enter into it. Plus H1 in fact does have some carbon in it, albeit a comparatively small amount (.15%). I don't know exactly what metallurgical magic is worked in H1, but I know its hardenability and corrosion resistance are both because it uses nitrogen as its key agent rather than carbon like other steels.
 
RevDevil said:
There is no carbon in the steel , no carbon = no rust. What more do you need?
Click to expand...
Umm.... Not to be an ass or anything, but technically yes, it absolutely can rust. If a Steel has Iron in it, it can rust. (And I'm pretty sure the definition of Steel is a compound of Iron and Carbon.)

EDIT: Sorry, Planterz beat me to it.
 
Planterz said:
Sorry brother, but that doesn't make any sense. Rust is, after all, iron oxide. The carbon doesn't enter into it. Plus H1 in fact does have some carbon in it, albeit a comparatively small amount (.15%). I don't know exactly what metallurgical magic is worked in H1, but I know its hardenability and corrosion resistance are both because it uses nitrogen as its key agent rather than carbon like other steels.
Click to expand...

That be what I meant...:o
 
TravW said:
Umm.... Not to be an ass or anything, but technically yes, it absolutely can rust. If a Steel has Iron in it, it can rust. (And I'm pretty sure the definition of Steel is a compound of Iron and Carbon.)

EDIT: Sorry, Planterz beat me to it.
Click to expand...

Have you used it? It can't rust unless you use corrosive chemicals to purposely try to make it rust. It won't rust when exposed to any natural environment.
 
If you look at the chemistry of H-1, I don't think it falls within the classic definition of steel.

I know of one incident where someone thought they had rust on a Salt series knife, but it turned out to be red algae growing on it. When the knife was left out of the ocean for a few days, the "rust" flaked away. I also know of one incident where H-1 did corrode rather severely, but that was when it was left in direct contact with chlorine tablets overnight.

Edge retention on PE H-1 blades seems comparable to AUS-8. Not horrible, but not wonderful, either. Take a sharpener of some kind with you. Serrated H-1 is another matter altogether. For me, it holds up better than VG-10, due at least in part to its toughness. It doesn't lose teeth nearly as often as VG-10 serrated edges do.
 
yablanowitz said:
If you look at the chemistry of H-1, I don't think it falls within the classic definition of steel.
Click to expand...

I've kinda wondered about this myself. I know wikipedia isn't exactly the best source of empirical information, but it says steel is iron with .2-2.1% carbon. H1 has .15% carbon, which is slightly less than the supposed .2% minimum. Then again, 1018 steel (according to AISI - the American Iron and Steel Institute) has .15-.2% carbon, and is usually referred to as "mild steel". Certainly not knife-making steel. Spyderco's website says nitrogen is "Used in place of carbon for the steel matrix. The Nitrogen atom will function in a similar manner to the carbon atom but offers unusual advantages in corrosion resistance." IIRC, making steel with nitrogen usually isn't possible, but H1 is made in a vacuum, which allows it to be possible.

Maybe H1 doesn't fall within the classic definition of steel, but that's probably only because classically they never used nitrogen in place of carbon before. That, and there's really nothing else you can call H1 (being mostly iron, after all), other than qualifying it steel utilizing nitrogen instead of carbon. It's an amazing new world we live in, and I wouldn't be surprised if vacuum-made nitrogen-based steels are the wave of the future.
 
thermalwedgie said:
I just recently purchased a spyderco ladybug in h1steel and so far I am happy with the steel excellent corrosion resistance, but what im wondering about is the edge retention. Any general stories about your experiences with the steel would be appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...

thermalwedgie said:
The main reason i got the H1 steel is for its corrosion resistance, sorry if the post was misleading, but I'm just wondering if i may need to take a sharpener with me if i go camping.
Click to expand...

I measured the hardness of a Salt I. 56.5 HRC was the measurement.
I did some side-by-side comparisons of the H1 blade cutting manila rope.

The H1 held an edge about as well as your average non-carbide forming stainless alloy hardened to 56.5 would. Which is to say, it held an edge less well than AUS8 at 59HRC or even Buck 420HC at 59HRC. The H1 performed on the order of Case Tru-Sharp, which is run at about 55HRC.

This is in agreement with what FlaMtnBkr has found in daily use.

So, yeah. I'd probably take a sharpener of sorts if I were going to be out for a spell with it. H1 sharpens really easily and takes a very fine edge, so even the base of a ceramic mug should work just peachy.


Planterz said:
Sorry brother, but that doesn't make any sense. Rust is, after all, iron oxide. The carbon doesn't enter into it. Plus H1 in fact does have some carbon in it, albeit a comparatively small amount (.15%). I don't know exactly what metallurgical magic is worked in H1, but I know its hardenability and corrosion resistance are both because it uses nitrogen as its key agent rather than carbon like other steels.
Click to expand...

Planterz said:
I've kinda wondered about this myself. I know wikipedia isn't exactly the best source of empirical information, but it says steel is iron with .2-2.1% carbon. H1 has .15% carbon, which is slightly less than the supposed .2% minimum. Then again, 1018 steel (according to AISI - the American Iron and Steel Institute) has .15-.2% carbon, and is usually referred to as "mild steel". Certainly not knife-making steel. Spyderco's website says nitrogen is "Used in place of carbon for the steel matrix. The Nitrogen atom will function in a similar manner to the carbon atom but offers unusual advantages in corrosion resistance." IIRC, making steel with nitrogen usually isn't possible, but H1 is made in a vacuum, which allows it to be possible.

Maybe H1 doesn't fall within the classic definition of steel, but that's probably only because classically they never used nitrogen in place of carbon before. That, and there's really nothing else you can call H1 (being mostly iron, after all), other than qualifying it steel utilizing nitrogen instead of carbon. It's an amazing new world we live in, and I wouldn't be surprised if vacuum-made nitrogen-based steels are the wave of the future.
Click to expand...

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php?snm=H1
At 0.15% C, H1 is most definitely a steel.

Increasing the carbon content of a steel alloy decreases the corrosion resistance. Carbon and iron form a galvanic pair. But, there's something else going on here. We use a lot of PH steels at work (primarily 17-4 and 15-5). These contain 0.07% Carbon, which is less than the carbon content of H1. We find that they surface corrode relatively easily, though they don't pit. If I had to guess, I'd say the improved corrosion resistance is also due to the 7.0% nickel and not just to the nitrogen. I'd hazard a WAG (Wild A Guess) that Nitrogen is there to form the precipitates that give it its hardness, not to provide corrosion resistance. Edited to add: limiting the Carbon content to 0.15% definitely helps, though.

Nitrogen doesn't exactly replace Carbon. H1 is a PH steel. PH steels harden because they form precipitates in the alloy. The precipitates keep the iron matrix from deforming (that makes the steel "harder"). The result is the same as what Carbon produces, but, if I understand it correctly, the actual mechanism is somewhat different.

I'm a big fan of carbides and the wear resistance they impart. You don't get those with Nitrogen addition. I don't see Nitrogen containing alloys as the wave of the future.

But H1 definitely has a niche and I'm glad Sal Glessar brought it to market as a knife steel.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top