Habaki vs. Traditional(again)

etp777

etp777

Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Messages
2,259
ok, I have 1 khuk torn down now for a full rework, and another one I'm probaly going to have to take apart(seems some of the epoxy didn't set right, though cooking it right now to see if it will). Anyways, while I vaguely know difference between traditional and habaki bolsters, was wondering if this was somethign where I fcould modify the habaki into more of a traditional one myself. To that end, I was wondering if anyone had any pictures they could share(tried searching, all pictures I found in old threads were broken links).

ANy help on topic(pictures or commentary) would be greatly appreciated.
 
I know little about that- but have one observation: from looking at the broken khuks, I think the metal leading from the blade proper should be more substantial, with less drastic drop off. More metal before it tapers into a thin triangle. Munk the ignorant hath spake.


munk
 
etp777 all you have to do to make it a traditional bolster is cut off the flat extension on the habaki bolster. Cut it off fairly close with a hacksaw and then file flat and smooth. You might have to gently tap the angles to get them to fit up a little closer to the tang and blade intersection but it's not hard, just tap easy so as to not bend the thin but stout brass.
And you won't get them perfect so don't even try, just get 'em as close as possible.
You can then hollow out the handle if need be to slide further down the tang and fit it in the shortened bolster. A judicious use of masking or duct tape around the bolster before pouring in the epoxy will keep it from running through and hold the bolster in place while you slide the tape covered handle in.
There's complete directions in here somewhere a search should turn 'em up but if not let us know and we'll get back to you.
I'm sure others will reply besides me.;) :D
 
Handles I can do, was replacing this one anwyays. Was just trying to remember differences ont he bolsters. THink I've got it figured between your responses and other threads I found. Thanks guys. :)

Course, don't expect to see anything any time soon. I'm slowest knife maker/modifier in world. ;)
 
not really because from what i understand the part that is flush with the blade isn't covering anything except laha and the upper part of the tang..

am I correct?
 
Yep, what you see of the blade is it, the bolster is only around tang. With at least one of them I may even see about grinding the shoudler up a bit to remove some of the cho creep, ahven't decided yet though, that's a bit more serious modification, and if not careful, can easily leave a real stress spot there.
 
true that the bolster only rides on the tang, but that part of the tang is still larger that most hunting knives...!

I trust it....just fill the gap with 2-ton epoxy and you'll be set.

Dan
 
It really doesn't matter if the tang is as large as many hunting knives if the mass in front of it is proportionally large. How many failures now as compared to the old style bolster? It is a weak point, though how weak remains to be understood. Certainly, that most of us use our khuks without incident would seem to be good judgement upon the viability of the new habaki bolster. I could wish it better reinforced, and with less dramatic taper.

munk
 
In my opinion, the taper/square edges are more of a concern then the actual bolster, I think. I'm modifying it to a more traditional look just so it looks right. But as part of fixing the cho creep(same khuk), I'm goign to try to radius the transition from blade to tang to a more rounded(and hence less chance of stress risers) type of profile.
 
I think we've started too strong an anti-habaki campaign....the breaks that I've seen or read about were mostly due to there not being enough laha in the handle, or the tang being over hardened.

If left unhardened - the tang should bend long before it breaks.
 
I haven't joined the anti habaki- though I do want more metal and less dramatic taper in the point behind the blade.

The trouble with the anti habaki movement is this- if we returned to the old style and there are still breaks, what do you blame now?

In other words, don't move until we're certain.



munk
 
Traditional vs. habaki is just something for looks to me. I like them both, and both have pluses and minuses. I tend to be somewhat leery of habaki fo rstrength, but you're exactly right, we dont' know.
 
On the habaki I cut off it took me a good while filing it down to make it fit exactly right to the top of the blade. The reason was not that I cut the habaki off at an odd angle, it was that the blade itself had some really odd angles. One side of the spine was much lower than the other.

I think now that that part is done it actually fits better than before. I think it makes the cho look better.

I still need to finish finishing the handle though. Also when I pulled the tape off the blade I had somehow lost a 1/16 X 1/2 inch part of the edge. I'm not sure if I dropped the blade on Nasty's cement floor at the KHON, or if the heavy chopping I gave the blade that cracked the original handle weakened a flaw in the forging of the edge and the tape just pulled it off.

I have re sharpened and reprofiled the edge now and all that remains is to coat the handle and put the keeper back on and peen down the tang. As long as the blade doesn't chip off anymore this should be a brute to chop with. The handle and bolster will NEVER come off. :cool:
 
pendentive said:
If left unhardened - the tang should bend long before it breaks.
Click to expand...
I broke the tang on my as forged Hanuman blade just by hammering on it and not heating it to at least dark cherry red. It broke exactly where the flat part of a so called habaki bolster would have been. The narrower part of the tang was bending just fine. It didn't appear to be nor did it act as if the tang had been accidently hardened.
The tang on the as forged Chainpuri blade bent just fine hammering on it cold.
 
:barf: KILL THE HABAKI! :D

Seriously what good reason is there for it? ;)

if the kukri & scabbard are both built right there no need for it. ;)

It allows time saving short cuts by the kamis! :eek:

The tang should be in the handle! Not the bolster! After all the kukri takes a lot more abuse than a hunting knife! :D

:barf: KILL THE HABAKI! :D

Spiral
 
I agree with Pen when he says if it is full of laha should be OK, but I myself would much rather see more of the tang be in the handle. That way when there wasn't enough laha it might not make as much difference.

I could see how if it actually went over the blade it might help strength and reduce cho creep but it doesn't.

If the purpose is to somehow make the knife fit in the sheath better I can't see that on any that I have that it makes a difference one way or the other. I think my habaki lobotomized AK fits in the sheath better now that I removed it.
As I recall the M43 raffled at convention had a non habaki bolster, so they obviously know how to make them without. Wish they would.

On the tang breaking stuff I'm really not very impressed with the tempering on the khukuris in general. Seems like a third are too hard and brittle, a third are too soft and a third just right- of the ones I have had. Sher and Swastika Kami, especially Swastika seem to be the most well tempered ones I have had of the HI's. Bura the softest. On my Kumar Fox Folly it was well tempered overall but every time I'd chop with it there was about an inch and a half of the edge in the sweet spot that would just go flat. On either side it would still be sharp.
 
La ha is a gap filling adhsive, & a good one at that, ;) but if you put a solid block of it on a piece of wood and lighty tap it with a hammer it will shater into hundreds of pieces,. :eek:

It works when used in thin layer as gap filling againt a strong surronding material. ;) used as filler insde a soft brass or nickel silver bolster it will diintegrate under shock. :eek: :grumpy: or if it doesnt it is to soft & will allow movment! :eek:

This is likely to put stress at the tang juncture which is the weakest point of the blade! :eek:

Any microscopic flexing of the unsupported tang also increases the chances of handle cracks! :mad:

Spiral
 
spiraltwista said:
La ha is a gap filling adhsive, & a good one at that, ;) but if you put a solid block of it on a piece of wood and lighty tap it with a hammer it will shater into hundreds of pieces,. :eek:

It works when used in thin layer as gap filling againt a strong surronding material. ;) used as filler insde a soft brass or nickel silver bolster it will diintegrate under shock. :eek: :grumpy: or if it doesnt it is to soft & will allow movment! :eek:

This is likely to put stress at the tang juncture which is the weakest point of the blade! :eek:

Any microscopic flexing of the unsupported tang also increases the chances of handle cracks! :mad:

Spiral
Click to expand...

Hear, Hear!!!

If the Kamis put the flat thin part of the Habaki over the blade, and buried the tang all the way in the handle, and matched the hole in the handle to the tang, there wouldn't be any problem. I don't think that they are properly applying the Habaki bolster, and that is not the bolster design's problems. It is a "labor-saving device" only insofar as it is being mis-used.

Several of my K&Cs handles have holes that are way too big for the tangs, and there was lots of empty space not even filled with laha. If that happens on a khuk, I think you have a problem.

But the real issue is getting the tang all the way into the handle. The bolster should be filled with handle, not laha. They can still fill an old style bolster with laha instead of handle, though they do seem to be narrower, which is a plus.
 
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