Hair popping sharp with dmt duofold...

Surfingringo

Surfingringo

Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
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Hi all, got the dmt duofold sharpener last week at the suggestion of several in here. I got the coarse/fine model. I have been very happy with it! Got all my knives shaving sharp in no time at all, but I know I can get them sharper! So i just ordered the ex fine/ex ex fine model! Am I going to see a difference in sharpness with the finer stone? Yes, I know it's going to depend on my technique as always, but I'm just curious if, all things being equal, the finer stones will help me take it to "the next level"??

Lance
 
Once EE stone is broken-in, maybe you can get hair-popping sharp depends on steel types. 3um diamond mesh is around 2-4K waterstone, so with gentle strokes you can raise to effective grit to maybe 4-5K waterstone, which is getting close to hair-popping territory. For a sure route, after EE, etrop on 1um & 0.5um diamond compound loaded strop.
 
You should be hair popping from the fine DMT.
 
knifenut1013 said:
You should be hair popping from the fine DMT.
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Sure, if you've a well broken in dmt F and been practicing a lot. Otherwise, hair popping would be a false expectation for 99% of sharpeners using a rough dmt-fine surface. That's why you want to use a right tool (E/EE) to achieve your objective the easy way. OTOH, it would be fun to get hair popping using a 220grit coated golf ball :rolleyes:
 
Ok, thank you both for your input. Yes Jason, i agree. I know there is WAY more that I can get out of the fine grit as I practice, improve my technique and become more precise. I'm just curious as to whether I'm going to improve my edges by using the ef/eef stone. Guess ill find out in a couple of weeks when it gets here. The way I'm going around sharpening everything in the house, I am probably going to be getting better results by the time it arrives anyway. :-)
 
bluntcut said:
Sure, if you've a well broken in dmt F and been practicing a lot. Otherwise, hair popping would be a false expectation for 99% of sharpeners using a rough dmt-fine surface. That's why you want to use a right tool (E/EE) to achieve your objective the easy way. OTOH, it would be fun to get hair popping using a 220grit coated golf ball :rolleyes:
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False expectation? It only takes the sharpening of a few knives to break in a DMT hone. I can get hair popping off a 220 DMT too.

What is false is to think only fine grits produce sharp edges.
 
knifenut1013 said:
False expectation? It only takes the sharpening of a few knives to break in a DMT hone. I can get hair popping off a 220 DMT too.

What is false is to think only fine grits produce sharp edges.
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Perhaps there is a crossed-up in definition of hair popping. To me, hair popping is equivalent to HHT (hanging hair test), where the hair pop/jump upon in contact with the edge. If it is a hht type, 99.99% of knife sharpeners out there not going to pass the hht using grit up to 3K waterstone. Even if they were given a super thin white#1 steel blade. Well if popping means tree topping, again 99.98% will fail at 3K grit. beside embeded-diamond are much coarser than equiv grit in waterstone. Maybe OP and or others can chime in to define what hair popping mean.
 
Sigh...I was going to define "hair popping" at the beginning, but I didn't want to offend you guys as I'm sure u are both much more familiar with that state than I am. Let me simplify it. I have taken my knives through the course and fine stones. They will shave my arm in one pass. They will not tree top hairs. They will push cut magazine paper but won't cut figure 8's. Thats the best I can get them so far. I have no doubt that I am not getting 100% out of the coarse/fine stone, but that's not what I'm asking. I'm simply asking if I have gotten them that sharp on the fine stone, am I going to see a noticable difference working them through the ef/eef stone. I guess it's a dumb question since ill have the stones next week and can see for myself.

Jason. Bro, you are obviously an experienced and talented knife sharpener. I have read many of your posts and watched your videos. I am happy to learn anything that you are willing to pass along to me. But sometimes its like pulling teeth getting any useful information out of you. And yes, I believe that you can get a knife sharper finishing with a 220 stone than I can finishing with a 2000 stone. Unfortunately, that knowledge doesn't help me get my knives any sharper. Any other tips are always welcome.

Bless,

Lance
 
Just curious, other than doing it because you can, what's the point in this level of sharpness? Will that apple be any easier to dissect or that tomato really any easier to slice? I guess my own standard for my pocket/field knives is can they whittle wood and for kitchen knives, is it sharp enough to glide through a tomato.

In other words, how sharp is sharp enough? Again, if it's a hobby thing, I get that but if it's thinking an edge will last measurably longer, I have to wonder about that claim.
 
Assuming the edge is free of burrs & wires and therefore clean and pure, and if the steel is able to support a super-fine edge, taking it to the highest level of sharpness possible WILL keep it performing longer, for most typical tasks. The sharper the new edge starts out, the more effective the 'useful edge' will be when the hair-popping sharpness fades away. Contrast this with an edge that starts out 'just sharp enough' for real-world tasks; when that degrades to the next step down (to 'not quite sharp enough'), the real usefulness of the edge diminishes quickly.

'Hair-popping' sharpness almost always goes away quickly, if the knife gets used on anything a little tougher or more abrasive. But, nice thing about an edge that sharp is, even when that highest level of sharpness starts to fade away, the edge is still likely sharper than 99% of other 'typical' edges, and will therefore still cut more efficiently in real-world use. Good edge geometry also makes a BIG contribution to cutting efficiency. More work gets done with less force exerted; therefore less wear and greater edge longevity, especially at 30° inclusive or less.


David
 
Surfingringo said:
Sigh...I was going to define "hair popping" at the beginning, but I didn't want to offend you guys as I'm sure u are both much more familiar with that state than I am. Let me simplify it. I have taken my knives through the course and fine stones. They will shave my arm in one pass. They will not tree top hairs. They will push cut magazine paper but won't cut figure 8's. Thats the best I can get them so far. I have no doubt that I am not getting 100% out of the coarse/fine stone, but that's not what I'm asking. I'm simply asking if I have gotten them that sharp on the fine stone, am I going to see a noticable difference working them through the ef/eef stone. I guess it's a dumb question since ill have the stones next week and can see for myself.

Jason. Bro, you are obviously an experienced and talented knife sharpener. I have read many of your posts and watched your videos. I am happy to learn anything that you are willing to pass along to me. But sometimes its like pulling teeth getting any useful information out of you. And yes, I believe that you can get a knife sharper finishing with a 220 stone than I can finishing with a 2000 stone. Unfortunately, that knowledge doesn't help me get my knives any sharper. Any other tips are always welcome.

Bless,

Lance
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Your OP answers your own question. A finer stone will always give you a sharper edge if you do your part, not sure what other answer you looking for besides practice practice practice.
 
Please do not twist my words. I say things pretty clearly. My original post was a question. You just answered it. Thank you.

I wasn't joking. I have read some of your threads and they have been helpful to me. I specifically ask YOU for help because it seems you know what you are doing. I already know you have more experience than me. I KNOW that you have better technique than me. I know you are getting better results. That's why I ask for help. You want to help? Thanks in advance! You just want to point out that i need help, save it. I already know that. Somebody gave you some help along the way I'll bet.

Ok man, I'm done...lets be friends! Hehehe.
 
Oh, and CSG, I can't speak for anyone else, but I want my knives sharper just to see how sharp I can get them. I am actually enjoying the act of sharpening and level of sharpness is just kind of a measuring stick of my practice.
 
Surfingringo said:
Please do not twist my words. I say things pretty clearly. My original post was a question. You just answered it. Thank you.

I wasn't joking. I have read some of your threads and they have been helpful to me. I specifically ask YOU for help because it seems you know what you are doing. I already know you have more experience than me. I KNOW that you have better technique than me. I know you are getting better results. That's why I ask for help. You want to help? Thanks in advance! You just want to point out that i need help, save it. I already know that. Somebody gave you some help along the way I'll bet.

Ok man, I'm done...lets be friends! Hehehe.
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Don't know why your getting so worked up, if you have read my post and watched my videos then you have most of my knowledge handed to you. I'm not twisting your words I'm showing you, you already have the knowledge and your left to build your own skill. Yeah, someone showed me how to sharpen when I was 9 then I learned from my mistakes for the next 20+ years. This stuff doesn't always come easy and I spent years doing self study to overcome my sharpening hurdles, matter of fact, I still study on my own because the more you learn the bigger the hurdle gets.
 
Yeah, Surf, I was just curious why some seem to take their sharpening so far. Not really challenging the idea, rather trying to learn if there are measurable benefits. My standard to see if the knife is sharp is slicing newspaper. If I can do that then I know I can cut tomatoes or deal with wood. I'm wondering if I made the effort to polish the edge with finer stones that the Spyderco Fine grit will my edge be stronger or last longer?
 
Hehe, yeah well, I used to want a super steel with an everlasting edge, but now it's kind of a moot point since I'm on this "sharpening kick". I'm always looking for an excuse to touch em up. So...soft, easy to work steel is fine with me for the moment. No matter how sharp I get em, I find an excuse to fiddle with the edge every day or two. :-).

I think I just like learning and practicing too. I think practicing trying to get an "extreme" edge is definitely making me a better everyday sharpener. I came in with sexeral fish two days ago and pulled out a dull filet knife and had it shaving sharp in 30 seconds. I would not have achieved that result a month ago. So I guess whatever motivates one to practice is good.
 
I'm also in the constantly fooling around with the edges multiple times daily stage myself. ;)
 
Haha, yeah, sometimes I get one pretty sharp and keep fooling with it until I make it dull again! Tats one of the things I'm learning.,,when to STOP!
 
Surfingringo said:
Hehe, yeah well, I used to want a super steel with an everlasting edge, but now it's kind of a moot point since I'm on this "sharpening kick". I'm always looking for an excuse to touch em up. So...soft, easy to work steel is fine with me for the moment. No matter how sharp I get em, I find an excuse to fiddle with the edge every day or two. :-).

I think I just like learning and practicing too. I think practicing trying to get an "extreme" edge is definitely making me a better everyday sharpener. I came in with sexeral fish two days ago and pulled out a dull filet knife and had it shaving sharp in 30 seconds. I would not have achieved that result a month ago. So I guess whatever motivates one to practice is good.
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One advantage to learning to sharpen is that when you have your technique down, you can sharpen almost any steel that you come across. For example, when I first started to get serious about sharpening, I started to be able to get the regular steels like VG-10 and 8Cr13Mov shaving armhair. I wanted to learn more but I started getting cocky about my skills on the sharpmaker. Then I come across ZDP...haha. It was a humbling experience.
 
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