Hammer Brand by Taylor

[tomcrx]

I don't really mind (too much) GEC using the Tidioute and Northfield trademarks -- they're trying to live up to the quality and craftsmanship these names originally stood for. Unfortunately, Hammer Brand was almost immediately diluted after New York Knife Co folded -- slapped on untold numbers of cheap shell handled knives (meaning just a shell of tin - with a bit of plastic veneer - crimped to the liners instead of actual scales and bolsters). It's not nostalgia that makes me hate to see most brand recycling -- it's that far too often it's the equivalent of Ferrari or Bugatti folding, and in a few years seeing their brand names slapped on a line of resurrected Yugos.

That is the feeling I have. If a company is making knives with an effort to bring the same craftsmanship the original brand had then I don't have an issue. If they are just "cashing" in on the mark then it is a put off. Again it is highly subjective.

Traditionals are such a collector nostalgia market now that I could see it would be hard for a company to get a foothold, even with a quality product, in the market today. Big box stores don't carry them. Hardware stores, once the mainstay, are a dwindling market. Laws and restrictions make knives harder to carry without stigma. The collector and aficianado are the market and they like the old trademarks and brandnames, not Bob's Acme Knife company.

 

[brownshoe]

It's a matter of respect for the past and respect for yourself, i.e. your new company. If it's a new company, why not a new mark and a new name? Take pride in it, don't try to tag it to a history that has no basis in the reality of the current firm or product.

We call it "marketing" but where does marketing end and a con game begin? Why won't Taylor make their own new brand and mark, like Canal Street. For example, the first round of "Scagel" productions knives were copies of real Scagel knives. This is no longer true.

 

[tomcrx]

It's a matter of respect for the past and respect for yourself, i.e. your new company. If it's a new company, why not a new mark and a new name? Take pride in it, don't try to tag it to a history that has no basis in the reality of the current firm or product.

True that is why I kind of admire Canal Street Cutlery. Even though they are all ex-Schrade and could use that fact in their marketing, they don't.

That does bug me about Scagel, he was a very unique craftsman and just putting an arrowhead shield and a hole in the blade does not make it a Scagel

 

[cutter17]

What size is that Swell Centre please? One spring or two?

The Swell Center Jack is 4 7/8" closed, with one blade 2 7/8", and the other is 2 1/8". It does have two springs and weighs 3.5 ounces.

The Wildcat Driller is 4 1/2" closed, with a main blade 3 1/4", and two blades at 2 1/4". It also has two springs with both springs working together on the main blade. It weighs 6 ounces, and is a handfull of knife that really feel solid.

The Wildcat really makes me want the Case and GEC Steel version's.

 

[Pipeman]

In reality when you compare the poorly made tin handled Hammer brand knives from the past to the new hammer brand knives, the new knives are better made than the old. IMO
Although, I like the thin blades and the steel they used in their old 5 cent knives.

Regards

Robin

 

[Seals]

True that is why I kind of admire Canal Street Cutlery. Even though they are all ex-Schrade and could use that fact in their marketing, they don't.

That does bug me about Scagel, he was a very unique craftsman and just putting an arrowhead shield and a hole in the blade does not make it a Scagel

I also admire Canal Street for their quality knives and just the fact that they are building knives in America.But i think they took full advantage of available ex Schrade employees marketing since you,me,and everyone else knows it.Its about all they could do since Taylor owns the name.

 

[TLARbb]

NICE! So true.

Seriously though, possibly the current knives using the HB mark are not so bad but my problem with it has nothing to do with the quality of their product. It's about the original intent of the mark being used and what that represented. Companies using an old mark are just trying to pull a fast one, IMHO. They trivialize the old mark...it's sad if you think about it.

I agree totally here. It's all about trying to ride someone else's good name rather than build one of your own. And it is a sad situation.

I like some of those Hammer branded knives, but it rubs me the wrong way to buy one. - Ed

 

[Will Power]

The Swell Center Jack is 4 7/8" closed, with one blade 2 7/8", and the other is 2 1/8". It does have two springs and weighs 3.5 ounces.

The Wildcat Driller is 4 1/2" closed, with a main blade 3 1/4", and two blades at 2 1/4". It also has two springs with both springs working together on the main blade. It weighs 6 ounces, and is a handfull of knife that really feel solid.

The Wildcat really makes me want the Case and GEC Steel version's.

Thanks for the info:thumbup: Near 5" knife is like some kind of pocket bayonet to me If it were 3.5" 3 and five eigths that's a whole different matter

 

[cutter17]

I made a little boo-boo on the length closed with the Swell Center Jack, it is actually 3 7/8" in the closed position.

 

[shecky]

I agree totally here. It's all about trying to ride someone else's good name rather than build one of your own. And it is a sad situation.

I like some of those Hammer branded knives, but it rubs me the wrong way to buy one. - Ed

It sounds as if they may repair the reputation of Hammer brand rather than ride its coattails. If this is the case, is it still bad thing? Or is it yet another creative way to dismiss Chinese made knives?

 

[Blues]

It sounds as if they may repair the reputation of Hammer brand rather than ride its coattails. If this is the case, is it still bad thing? Or is it yet another creative way to dismiss Chinese made knives?

There was nothing stated in this thread to indicate that the basis for dissatisfaction or argument (on any level) was the country of origin of the knives.
Gus and I are very vigilant on this topic and China bashing (or the equivalent) is never tolerated.

Don't start controversies where they are not needed or welcome.

 

[cutter17]

I meant to put a disclaimer in the op stating that this was not about China, or any political issues. Simply about the merits of the knife. I realize China should be mentioned in the context as the place of manufacture, just as Tawain, and Japan.

 

[Blues]

I meant to put a disclaimer in the op stating that this was not about China, or any political issues. Simply about the merits of the knife. I realize China should be mentioned in the context as the place of manufacture, just as Tawain, and Japan.

You did nothing at all wrong (from the get-go), and truth be told, the knife could just as well have been discussed on its merits alone without ever having to bring up the country of origin (unless that was of particular interest or concern to someone).

(The very fact that you mentioned that the knife was from Taylor Brands was info enough to indicate that we weren't talking about original manufacture.)

 

[midnight flyer]

This is just my opinion, so please, don't set me on fire.

I think some here need to ease up. While I think it stinks that old favorite name are being recycled, it isn't because I am swinging the sword of moral righteousness. It's much easier than that.

I don't want anyone crowding out my favorite memories or experiences with a "pretender" product, no matter how well it is made.

I first faced this in the mid/late 70s when Rockwell tools (NOT the corporation) when out of business. Rockwell was the standard of its day, all of us professionals either used them or lusted after their tools. A low end line of junk was outsourced by an investment group, and it failed badly. So we thought that was the end of Rockwell. But thirty years later, Rockwell pops up again... NOPE, not that Rockwell. Sure they make hand tools, but it isn't the same. These aren't the same tools I learned my trade on.

The same thing happened to the DeWalt hand tool (not radial saw) brand. It collapsed about 25 years ago when Black and Decker bought it, then was revitalized and stamped on everything imaginable tool that would make a buck. The original DeWalt never made screwdrivers, hand carts, saw horses, cheap levels, or any of the other gemcracks that fill a hardware store these days.

The same goes for Porter Cable. That's a sore subject as I had a lot of PC tools in the 70s and early 80s. One of my "vintage" drills just quit! They were that good. PC went away for a while after being purchased by a giant conglomerate. Then they came back with a huge line of medium to lower grade tools that took advantage of the name recognition, and of the ability to use the international manufacturing community. I won't comment on their quality as it is spotty.

One of my favorite tools to buy when I finally started making money in the trades was Milwaukee. I am not positive, but I don't think Milwaukee makes ANY of their own product anymore. It used to be made in Milwaukee (or nearby) by them, and it was all damn fine products. You knew you had a helluva tool in your hand with them. Now they job everything out, and have moved (all?) of their manufacturing overseas. They are a shell here, owned by one of the monsters that are slapping a Milwaukee sticker on a jobbed out product made somewhere else. They are just another manufacturer, now.

Out of all the fine old tool companies that used to make tools for us tradesmen, I don't know of one major manufacturer left here that makes tools here and more importantly isn't owned by one of the the three huge investment conglomerates. Tools these days aren't even made by tool guys or for tool guys. They are like knives for the most part, simply manufactured widgets.

Now when I buy a new or replacement tool, I just have think about something else when I start waxing poetic about the good old days. But.... those good old days are good and gone. Have been for some time.

Still stings a bit to see those old names/memories out there, though. Especially when you know what they were years ago.

Robert

 

[cutter17]

You did nothing at all wrong (from the get-go), and truth be told, the knife could just as well have been discussed on its merits alone without ever having to bring up the country of origin (unless that was of particular interest or concern to someone).

(The very fact that you mentioned that the knife was from Taylor Brands was info enough to indicate that we weren't talking about original manufacture.)

I'm learning!!

Thanks Blues.

 

[cutter17]

This is just my opinion, so please, don't set me on fire.

I think some here need to ease up. While I think it stinks that old favorite name are being recycled, it isn't because I am swinging the sword of moral righteousness. It's much easier than that.

I don't want anyone crowding out my favorite memories or experiences with a "pretender" product, no matter how well it is made.

I first faced this in the mid/late 70s when Rockwell tools (NOT the corporation) when out of business. Rockwell was the standard of its day, all of us professionals either used them or lusted after their tools. A low end line of junk was outsourced by an investment group, and it failed badly. So we thought that was the end of Rockwell. But thirty years later, Rockwell pops up again... NOPE, not that Rockwell. Sure they make hand tools, but it isn't the same. These aren't the same tools I learned my trade on.

The same thing happened to the DeWalt hand tool (not radial saw) brand. It collapsed about 25 years ago when Black and Decker bought it, then was revitalized and stamped on everything imaginable tool that would make a buck. The original DeWalt never made screwdrivers, hand carts, saw horses, cheap levels, or any of the other gemcracks that fill a hardware store these days.

The same goes for Porter Cable. That's a sore subject as I had a lot of PC tools in the 70s and early 80s. One of my "vintage" drills just quit! They were that good. PC went away for a while after being purchased by a giant conglomerate. Then they came back with a huge line of medium to lower grade tools that took advantage of the name recognition, and of the ability to use the international manufacturing community. I won't comment on their quality as it is spotty.

One of my favorite tools to buy when I finally started making money in the trades was Milwaukee. I am not positive, but I don't think Milwaukee makes ANY of their own product anymore. It used to be made in Milwaukee (or nearby) by them, and it was all damn fine products. You knew you had a helluva tool in your hand with them. Now they job everything out, and have moved (all?) of their manufacturing overseas. They are a shell here, owned by one of the monsters that are slapping a Milwaukee sticker on a jobbed out product made somewhere else. They are just another manufacturer, now.

Out of all the fine old tool companies that used to make tools for us tradesmen, I don't know of one major manufacturer left here that makes tools here and more importantly isn't owned by one of the the three huge investment conglomerates. Tools these days aren't even made by tool guys or for tool guys. They are like knives for the most part, simply manufactured widgets.

Now when I buy a new or replacement tool, I just have think about something else when I start waxing poetic about the good old days. But.... those good old days are good and gone. Have been for some time.

Still stings a bit to see those old names/memories out there, though. Especially when you know what they were years ago.

Robert

No need for worry. You simply spoke your truth about the matter. Would be a boring place if we all had the same opinion.

 

[shecky]

There was nothing stated in this thread to indicate that the basis for dissatisfaction or argument (on any level) was the country of origin of the knives.
Gus and I are very vigilant on this topic and China bashing (or the equivalent) is never tolerated.

Don't start controversies where they are not needed or welcome.

Sorry if I stepped on toes. I think my record shows that I have been a consistent defender of Chinese made knives. I was simply reiterating willgoy's point about the selective nature of this complaint, and how it tends to be overlooked when the offending practice is done by well respected companies. And also pointing out that this particular brand revival may not actually be riding the reputation coattails that might cause some ill will among knife nuts.

 

[Blues]

Sorry if I stepped on toes. I think my record shows that I have been a consistent defender of Chinese made knives.

That's not the point. Your support for those manufacturers wasn't in question nor germane. It's the inference made by your post which was. Let's move on as it's been addressed.
No further comment on this matter is appropriate in this thread or this sub-forum.