Hammers and Tongs

S

SAK

Joined
Sep 28, 2001
Messages
508
I’ve been a knife accumulator for most of my life. Now I want to try making some knives.

I have done some reading. I have a preliminary anvil and a hand-cranked coal forge. I am heating and flattening metal; practicing on mild steel. Playing with trying to pound round stock into a uniform flat shape without pits or hammer marks. It is readily apparent that my next purchase must be a decent hammer. Currently, I have a 3-pound $1.00 garage sale special (that likely didn’t cost much more than that when it was new).

1) What type of hammer would you recommend? Keep in mind that my first hammer will likely be my only hammer for a while.

2) If you could only have one pair of tongs to start with what type would you suggest?

Thanks,

--SAK
 
Here is what I use 99.99% of the time:

Hammer: 2 pound straight peen. the peen, or rounded wedge, is in line with the hammer handle. The peen will allow you to draw out the metal.

Tongs: I think they are 14 inch reins and called wolf jaw tongs. Kinda like a universal tong.

Check out http://www.centaurforge.com/ they seem to have about everything.
 
Whatever you do dont get the Swedish pattern hammers. I spent way too much on an unruly hammer. I'm not sure if its the handle or the offset in the weight of the head but I hate it.:mad:
 
I use a 3 lb cross peen hammer for most of my work but have special hammers for certain jobs. For the final finish where I'm getting rid of the forging marks and getting the final shape flat, I use a 5 lb hand sledge because I can lay the work on the anvil, lean over and look at the edge while gently tapping. I don't have to worry about using any force at all because the hammer weight does it.

I have 20 or 25 sets of tongs I made for one job or the other but the one I use most for general getting stuff in and out of the forge is a pair of slip joint pliers that I welded two 3 ft pipes to the handles.:o
 
I use a 4 pound shop hammer with a cross-pein for most of my rough forging. Then I follow up with a 1,500 gram Pedinghause cutlers hammer for finish work on blades. I had to 'tweak' that shop hammer in order to make it more friendly for general forging. You might try that with the hammer you already have. One thing to remember is that it's best to have more weight forward in the head. That is, you want the face of your hammer to be heavier than the tail. That's why I like the pein type hammers. Then, you need to grind the face into a slightly convex curved surface and knock off the sharp edges so it won't leave dings in your steel. A flat faced hammer is difficult to work with when forging. With a little practice, you'd be surprised how flat and smooth you can forge a hunk of round stock into a nice flat piece of blade forging stock using a hammer with a rounded face. Then for fun and practice you should try taking a piece of flat bar stock and forging it into a nice, even round shape. Heh. Anyway, I hope this helps.
 
OOPS.....Max, I just noticed in another post that my spell checker changed your name to Mack the knife.....Sorry:o
 
I use a simple 4 lb cross-pein. I did file away the face of it to make it pretty and smooth before using it.

Tim
 
Originally posted by Mark Williams
Whatever you do dont get the Swedish pattern hammers. I spent way too much on an unruly hammer. I'm not sure if its the handle or the offset in the weight of the head but I hate it.:mad:
Click to expand...

I don't much like 'em either. Tried a shorter handle, shaped it down, it just wasn't for me... it just may end up as a tomahawk.

Craig
 
What about exotica, like home made hammers, Iraeli, or Japanese?

Chuck Robinson has an excellent video on making your own anvil, and he mentions that just maybe he may make a hammer making video. I hope he does, because the hammers that he shows in his tape look pretty interesting.
 
Great information from all!

Interesting comment about the convex face. I was figuring I would want the face to be as absolutely flat as possible. Then again, I am also having a tough time getting a smooth surface on my work piece. This is why it is great to have the opportunity to learn from you folks.

Should the transition from the face of the hammer to the next portion back be gradual or abrupt?

Yesterday I got an old, obviously hand-made, cross pein hammer. It was extremely pitted (cratered) with rust. Also, the handmade handle does not run quite perpendicular to the head (that ought to really mess with my practicing). I ground the face and will give it a try.

Also a very interesting comment about the use of a heavy hammer with light taps for removing forging marks.
I will stay away from Swedish pattern hammers.
I am not ready to make my own hammer or tongs - yet.

I am not much for buying things new but since it is not the best time of year for garage sales, and I am not ready to make my own quite yet, I think I will buy a single pair of tongs to get me started.

Any suggestions when picking from a list like this:
Kayne and Son:
- Off Center Wolf Jaw Tongs 18" - $ 30.00
- Orange Wolf Jaw Tongs 9-5/8" - $32.00
- 15.7 in Wolf Jaw Tongs $27.00
- 19.7 in Wolf Jaw Tongs $29.00
- 23.6 in Wolf Jaw Tongs $30 - sale. (Regular price $43.50.)
Centaur Forge:
- Centaur Tom Tongs Universal Wolfs Jaw, 3-3/4", 14" - $24.60
- Centaur Tom Tongs Universal Wolf'S Jaw, 2-1/2", 13" - $24.60
- Peddinghaus Wolfs Jaw, 3/16", 11-1/2" - $30.25
- Peddinghaus Wolfs Jaw, 5/16", 15-1/2" - $35.95
- Peddinghaus Wolfs Jaw, 1/2", 19-1/2" - $40.95
- Peddinghaus Wolfs Jaw, 7/8", 23-1/2" - $55.95
- Wolfs Jaw - 18 Inches Long - $40.15

Thank You,

--SAK
 
SAK,

As far as hammers go, my primary hammer is a 3# cross pien that I found in my own back yard after I bought my house. (Must have been destiny:p ) The face was cleaned up and the transition from the face to the sides of the hammer were rounded slightly. This way the corners of the hammer can be used like small fullers to spread the steel.

Recently I picked up a cheap Chinese 4# sledge and using an angle grinder with a grinding wheel and a sanding disk, I created a straight pein that I use when I really need to move some steel like on a tang, or when flattening out round stock.

Nick Wheeler showed me some of his hammers. He's got a couple of ball pein hammers that he's modified so that he can hammer closer to the edge of the steel and not strike his anvil. He's also got a neat fullering hammer. It's about a 3# slege that has had both faces ground down to be what I would describe as an "angle pien". The narrow surfaces are on the same plane and are at a 45 degree angle to the handle. To use this, keep both arms tucked in close to the body so that they are at a 45 degree angle to each other. This way the hammer is either a cross pien or a straight pien depending on which side you're using. It's a simple matter of giving the hammer a spin in your hand and you've got the pien going in the direction you need.

As far as tongs go, I'm currenly using some Off Center Forge tongs. The large set is a box jaw and the small set is a general shape. For forging knives, a pair of flat jaw tongs with some angle iron welded to one side of the jaws to form an upper and lower 'V' that face each are very secure when holding the knife tang.

Just some thoughts. I hope this helps.

If you have any hammers that you want to modify or need to clean up, you're welcome to stop by some time and use my belt grinder.

Cheers,

- Mike :)
 
all my hammers come from flea markets and garage sales.
offcenter tongs are my favorites a couple v bits or the new chainmakers, a box jaw and some wolf tongs would be a good starter.
 
My primary hammer is a Peddinghaus 1000G cross-peen. When I really need to move some metal I use the 1500 or the 2000.

May I make a suggestion? Stay clear of Centaur Forge. We need to send them a message that their prices are way too high. I use Kayne and Sons, and Old World Anvils when I can. Much better pricing and CS.
 
Hmmm... Jeff, Centaur's Tom Tongs at $24.60 are about as cheap as they get for new tongs and they seem to be well made tongs. Kayne & Son does have some close out sales on Off Center brand tongs for as low $22.00 right now.

Right now my favorite hammer is a 3 lb. double faced engineers type hammer, though I just picked up a 4 lb. of the same type that I may like better when I get a chance to use it. When I get a new handle on the 6 lb. double faced hammer I will really like it, it does wonders for moving steel in the beginning break down stages of forging. I really like the engineers hammers, I keep one face somewhat domed and the other face flatter.

I do use a 2 lb. cross peen some and I do like my 1500 Peddinghaus Swedish pattern cross peen hammer which makes me think I would really like to have several Japanese style cutlers hammers in various weights. I will have to try making some of those or buy one from Chuck Robinson or Ric Furrer.

One thing, no matter what hammer you get, you will almost certainly want to shorten the handle and even reshape the handle it so that it is more of a rectangular shape than an oval cross section. Oh, and despite the fact that you will end up with a wide array of hammers, you really only need a few, or I should say you will just end up using a few favorites for most of your forging.
 
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