Hamon driving me crazy. HELP!!!!

R

RMcClellan

Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
50
I don't post much, but I do read everything that goes on here, being a new maker I find so much inspiration in the work you all do. I'm working on my 3rd knife which I decided to use to learn how to get a hamon line on. It's 1095, I did the clay coating with satinite, also did an edge quench in canola oil. Then set it aside to cool, I hand sanded it to 2000 grit, then did the etch in warm vinegar several times, each time it came out I rubbed it down with acetone, and cleaned it with 0000 steel wool. One side has a nice double hamon on it, not real dark, but definitley there, the other side looks like it has a cloudy or hazy "stain" ( for lack of a better word) over the hamon, yes you can see it behind the stain a bit. It is not as dark as the good side, nor does it show a double hamon. The last ditch effort for this knife was, last night...err about 3am this morning, I decided to soak it overnight in room temp vinegar. I took it out about 2 pm this afternoon, the same hamon is showing up on the good side, the other side is still kinda cloudy. What is the best way to fix this? Or is it salvageable? This is the last chance for this one, my time has been cut pretty short for my knife making. (Football season has started for my son.) And I have spent entirely to much time on this one knife. If this one is a wash, what should I change for the next attempt, I love a hamon line on a blade, it gives the blade so much character, so much individuallity. It's also giving me ulcers! I'd appreciate hearing any ideas, suggestions, anything that may make this one happen. Also, anything I can do different on the next one. I have read the archives, and there are some great pointers there, one I think I want to try is a "pre-etch" in vinegar and then a short etch in ferric chloride, I think my biggest problem is not understanding how to finish it after the etch, so any pointers there would be helpful, Thanks guys, Rex
 
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Ok, what is an interupted quench? I've read where different people where talking about it but noone ever explained it. Appreciate the quick response, I did the edge quench just as an experiment, in keeping with the hard edge and soft back. Could that be the source of my double hamon line?
 
Fun aren't they! :D

Full quench when using clay, the heat from the clay could run down to the edge as the blade cools.

You most likely have a bad hamon and no amount of etching will fix it. Must be re-heat treated.
 
THANKS DON!!!! I'm going to the shop right now and get to work on it, looks like another late night!! Fun you say??? Hmmm, I'll have to ponder that question after I create what I want to see!!! So far it has been extremely frustrating! (I must enjoy the frustration!) But I don't give up very easily, I may accept a defeat in a battle but the war continues on! This is my plan, I'm going to do the clay coating again, this time I'll quench the entire blade, and retemper to 400 degrees for 2 hours, I have been doing 3 temper for an hour each. But I have been seeing a lot of makers that do a single temper for 2 hours, so I decided to give it a try.
Being my 3rd knife I don't have enough experience to know which works best, not that I'm dissatisfied with the results from my first 2. They came out shaving sharp, and have held up to my limited testing. I'm open to all suggestions from successful makers. Thanks so much, Rex
 
As said, full quench when using clay. For an interrupted quench, you go in the oil for a three-count (one-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-onethousand), out for a three-count, and in to cool the rest of the way. When you quench initially, the edge will harden while the clay holds heat, keeping the portion under the clay hot. When you pull out for a three count, the heat under the clay will bleed down into your hardened blade portion, autotempering it, and may create some more interesting activity in your hamon. If you hold it out of the quench too long on the interruption, and your clay is too close to the edge, you run the risk of softening your edge as the heat bleeds down too far, so just keep that in mind.

That said, I'm no expert at this. I'm just repeating advice that some of our more advanced members here have given to me, and it works well when I've done it this way. Stacy laid out some great information in THIS thread just a few days ago.

--nathan
 
If you feel gutsy try a water brine. (Thats water with alot of salt added.)Its scary because you can crack a blade real easy. But the results are awsome when it works. The oil may be a concern also. A faster quenching oil will also improve the results depending on what your after. Hamons are a beautiful thing, To get them right requires alot of practice and a few cracked blades. Just keep at it, its worth it.
 
RMcClellan said:
how to get a hamon:

The last ditch effort for this knife was, last night...err about 3am this morning

And I have spent entirely to much time on this one knife.

It's also giving me ulcers!

I think my biggest problem is....

...looks like another late night!!

So far it has been extremely frustrating!
Click to expand...

Yep, that pretty much sums it up. It will make you crazy, but it is fun.

-Mike
 
If you feel gutsy try a water brine

Did that on my very first one, 1095 was supposed to be a water quenched steel...right?
No one said it would crack the freakin blade!!!! My first heat treat was an eventful experience, but I learned something from it. The water needs to be about 140 degrees!


As said, full quench when using clay. For an interrupted quench, you go in the oil for a three-count (one-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-onethousand), out for a three-count, and in to cool the rest of the way. When you quench initially, the edge will harden while the clay holds heat, keeping the portion under the clay hot.

I wrote the full quench with clay, down! Thanks for the interupted quench directions, I'll do that on the next one.

Update on the re-HT, I did the HT at 1500 degrees, for 7 minutes, put it straight into the oil, moving it forward and backward (not side to side), then into the oven at 350 degrees for 2 hours, upon taking it out, I let it cool, then started with 100 grit paper. I could see some action going on with 100 grit on the first side (formally known as the good side). It doesn't really look like any other hamons I've seen at this point. I got some of the Rhynowet Redline in the other day and by the time I got to 400 grit, it was finishing out very nicely (I was thinking it might be because it was already finished to 2000 grit) but the Redline does leave a nice finish. The sanding went pretty fast, I took it to 1000 grit, then cleaned it really good, twice. (While I was working on it I had the vinegar in the oven.) So into the warmed vinegar it went for 20 minutes. Upon taking it out, I could see the hamon line, slightly raised. I did a light rubbing with 0000 steel wool, which by the way doesn't do much. Used some Windex to neutralize and clean it a little. Now, I'm pretty sure it will need to be etched again.

I think the next step is to polish it, I think from the spine down to the line(?) I'm not possitive. I have looked high and low for Flitz and Simichrome, Is there a good substitute? Looking forward to your responses. Also, I want to Thank Everyone who chimed in.
 
Hey you aint that far away, come down and I will show you how to get it done, I have a good buddy in your area, Gimme a holler, 256 215 7212,Charlie
 
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