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Hamon issues
- Thread starter jgcustoms
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2002
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- 3,974
O-1 is a tough steel to get a hamon on because it is so deep hardening. A shallower/faster hardening steel like 1084, 1095, or W series works much better to get active hamons using clay on the spine. That being said, it is possible.
Brian Goode is the only guy I've seen getting consistent hamons out of O-1, and I believe he uses a torch to the edge and edge quenches in oil. He doesn't use clay, just draws the heat on with a torch (probably oxy/acet).
Here's a thread that may help you out:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537801&highlight=hamon
O-1 really benefits from a soak at temperature to get all carbon in solution, so if you use a torch, be prepared to sit and move it back a forth a while. The probelm with using a torch is that it's tough to judge temperature, especially while trying to hold a constant temp, and if you over shoot the critical temperature, you'll soon come to a temp where you will see rapid grain growth and a significant decrease in the quality/toughness of the finished blade. You've got to experiment to find roughly where the critical temp is, observe that color carefully in a consistent low-light room, and try not to go above that color. You could quench after a very short soak at temp and still get a servicable blade, but it won't be as good as it could be with a longer soak time.
If it were me and I wanted a hamon, I'd use 1084 and a fast manufactured oil quench. Let us know what you come up with.
Edited to add: There are a number of makers who have tried to get a hamon out of O-1 unsuccessfully. I've tried and never had too much success.
--nathan
Brian Goode is the only guy I've seen getting consistent hamons out of O-1, and I believe he uses a torch to the edge and edge quenches in oil. He doesn't use clay, just draws the heat on with a torch (probably oxy/acet).
Here's a thread that may help you out:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537801&highlight=hamon
O-1 really benefits from a soak at temperature to get all carbon in solution, so if you use a torch, be prepared to sit and move it back a forth a while. The probelm with using a torch is that it's tough to judge temperature, especially while trying to hold a constant temp, and if you over shoot the critical temperature, you'll soon come to a temp where you will see rapid grain growth and a significant decrease in the quality/toughness of the finished blade. You've got to experiment to find roughly where the critical temp is, observe that color carefully in a consistent low-light room, and try not to go above that color. You could quench after a very short soak at temp and still get a servicable blade, but it won't be as good as it could be with a longer soak time.
If it were me and I wanted a hamon, I'd use 1084 and a fast manufactured oil quench. Let us know what you come up with.
Edited to add: There are a number of makers who have tried to get a hamon out of O-1 unsuccessfully. I've tried and never had too much success.
--nathan
Last edited:
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- Jun 17, 2001
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- 5,705
Josh, First off you need to change steels if your looking for a hamon.
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2008
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- 106
Iv just got a blade i made out of left over 01 1/4" and just thought it would look best with a hamon but if it is out of reason because of the steel properties then i dont want to sacrifice the knife. I have a good deal of time and dont want to throw it away over a cosmetic appeal.lol. What if i polished the blade and then acid etched everything but the design of the "hamon" per say. Any ideas are welcome! Thank you
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No problem. There are a number of makers who etch for cosmetic effect. I've seen polished edges with etched spines, and even designs etched into the steel. Just cover up what you don't want to etch with some sort of resist, and I wouldn't get crazy carried away with the etch or you may open yourself up to more rapid oxidation issues as you're exposing more surface area and creating little pits for moisture to accumulate in. Of course, as long as it is well maintained and oiled, that shouldn't matter too much.
--nathan
--nathan
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- Apr 26, 2007
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- 957
Nick Allen seems to have the magic touch as well.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
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- 3,375
I think he meant to etch it with something like ferric Chloride. Take a paint stick or nail polish and paint on the edge "harmon" on both sides of the blade then place the blade in a mixture of 1/3 to 1/2 Ferric Chloride and distilled water. Leave it for a couple minutes then wipe it off with hot water and then do it again for a couple minutes and then boil the blade in hot water a while. The FC will attack the bare steel and darken it, the paint will protect the edge and it will remain shiny. A fake Harmon. You might get a real line if you took the whole O1 blade to temp and held it for 15 minutes then quenched just the edge in a pan that was say 3/4" deep with oil. It would be a straight line where the steel made it to martinesite and where it didn't. I have never done it with O1, but, I have with 5160. No flame patterns or anything, just a line where the steel changes.
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I have tried just an edge quench on a fully heated blade and had no success at getting a hamon. O-1 hardens so deeply that the martensite transition will move up past the oil level and your hamon will disappear/fade to nothing. An edge quench on an edge-heated blade will produce a more recognizable transition line.
--nathan
--nathan
- Joined
- May 12, 2003
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- 1,606
I thought this was a sandwich thread....
You know trouble with hamonrye....
or hamonswiss...all you guys ever talk about is knives this and blades that...
Jeez...ok serious now...
Listen to what these guys say...
...and also sometimes the way a person abrades affects the visual patterns.
If it can be done...somebody here knows how....
I think though...the true hamon is coaxed as much as anything....right steel, right temperatures,right treatments,right quench, right polish, right heart.
All I ever get it lines that show a differential hardening....and sometimes banding...or others things.
A true hamon is a thing so a amazing...with sparkly dots and mist and clouds...with waves of gossamer that tempt and tease...I have seen some that look like frost on glass and others like fog across the sea.
I am embarrassed by my silly attempts to burn out the truth in acid baths...dipping and brushing and rinsing to see if it is there...only to lose it in the rush to enhance it.
Good luck, keep trying...listen.
Shane
You know trouble with hamonrye....
or hamonswiss...all you guys ever talk about is knives this and blades that...
Jeez...ok serious now...
Listen to what these guys say...
...and also sometimes the way a person abrades affects the visual patterns.
If it can be done...somebody here knows how....
I think though...the true hamon is coaxed as much as anything....right steel, right temperatures,right treatments,right quench, right polish, right heart.
All I ever get it lines that show a differential hardening....and sometimes banding...or others things.
A true hamon is a thing so a amazing...with sparkly dots and mist and clouds...with waves of gossamer that tempt and tease...I have seen some that look like frost on glass and others like fog across the sea.
I am embarrassed by my silly attempts to burn out the truth in acid baths...dipping and brushing and rinsing to see if it is there...only to lose it in the rush to enhance it.
Good luck, keep trying...listen.
Shane
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2002
- Messages
- 3,974
Shane, great job describing the essence of a beautiful hamon. They really can be magical. However, JG, if you're looking for that magic in O-1, you'll be looking for a long time. It's possible to get a decent transition line if you know what to do (I apparently don't, but others do), but the results won't be the same as the beautiful effects you'll get with other steels.
Oh, and like ib2vbu suggested, just use a diluted ferric chloride or even vinegar. Adding electricity into the mix can speed things up too much. Etch for a few minutes (a little longer for vinegar) and see what you've got. Be sure to neutralize with windex with ammonia or baking soda/water after you're done with your etches. Then rub it down with 00 steel wool and oil it well.
--nathan
Oh, and like ib2vbu suggested, just use a diluted ferric chloride or even vinegar. Adding electricity into the mix can speed things up too much. Etch for a few minutes (a little longer for vinegar) and see what you've got. Be sure to neutralize with windex with ammonia or baking soda/water after you're done with your etches. Then rub it down with 00 steel wool and oil it well.
--nathan
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
- Messages
- 3,375
Yes, there are some real Hamon masters around here and they use 1095 or W2 and do some great looking stuff. Aldo has some 1095 flat bar and it is some great stuff. I am going to try for a hamon next time I pound some into a blade. Only one real way to learn and that is start trying. There have been several threads here on how to set everything up. If I only hard a lot more time and energy.