Hamon on 1084?

[David Stifle]

I've seen hamon's on 1084, but they didn't seem to be all that great. Can you get a really good hamon on that steel? I know it wouldn't be as good as W2 or 1095, but..well, what quality of hamon could you expect?

 

[RMLamey]

your not going to get anything like you will with W2/1095/1086M. You can get some activity though, especially if your wanting a traditional "single" hardening line etc.... That's my experience anyway.

 

[David Stifle]

That's what I thought. Thanks!

 

[Leethal Cutlery]

What Matt said. Nothing too crazy but still worth it IMO. Matt Bailey gets some nice hamons on 1084

 

[Willie71]

I've achieved a couple weak hamons in 1084. They don't photograph we'll, but they look ok. I managed weak hamons In O1 as well.

 

[samuraistuart]

It's to my understanding that the higher manganese counts in 1084 makes for so-so hamons. The manganese, Stacy jump in here, if I remember right, aids in hardening. The shallower hardening steels W1 W2 give you better looking hamons because they don't have near the manganese in them. The 1084 I have has upwards of 8 or 9 points of manganese. While a definite hardening line can be achieved, it won't have near the "activity" as say....W2.

 

[Robert Dark]

Low manganese is the key to those wispy hamons. You can clay a 1084 blade, but the line will,at best, only follow the thicker portion of the clay.

It looks pretty neat, however, don't expect anything more than a wavy line.

Robert

 

[Bailey Knives]

I can get some hamons on 1084 (from Aldo) but I put the clay nearly to the edge, and make some lines that fade back into the main line of clay. The hamon tends to pull back from the main body of clay so that clay that is put 1/4" from the edge will be about 1/2" inch away, give or take.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

The more the alloy ingredients, the less the hamon. Manganese especially decreases/stops hamon formation, because it deepens /increases hardening.

Steels with low alloy and low Mn will develop the best hamons. W2, W1, 1095,Hitachi white paper, and any modified steel type with low Mn will do great. The benchmark is tamahagane steel, which is made with iron sand/magnetite and charcoal...nothing more. It is as pure a carbon steel as there is. 1% C and 99% Fe ( or such).

When steel hardens, the rate is determined by the hardenability of the steel. Some steels, like 1095, have such a low hardenability, that the pearlite nose is off the left side of the chart. This allows for structures that blend borders between pearlite and martensite. I am one of the few folks who still remembers this blend as being called Troosite. The junction of the pearlite and martensite allow crystals of both structures to meld. This creates a hazy area of hard martensite crystals in a soft pearlite matrix. Additionally, if the steel has low enough hardenability, small islands or individual flecks of martensite can appear at various places in the pearlite spine. This all creates the nie and nioi in a first class hamon.

If the steel fully hardens, through and through, there will be no hamon. Many people confuse a quench line or a temper line with a hamon...but they are entirely different things. The best way to compare them is to compare damascene finished blades with damascus steel. Both have a shimmery surface, but the shimmer is created entirely differently. One is only skin deep.