Hamon problems

S

seanystrangle

Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
374
i have an issue with a knife I’m making. It is 1075 i did a differential heat treat with clay and it shows with a etch but no matter how much i polish it won’t show up. I did leave a bit of forging scale on the flats of the blade about 1/8th inch from what looks to be the transition of the hardened steel any advice?
 
can you post a photo ? are you saying you can see the hamon when you pull it out of the etch, but it goes away when you polish it ? tell us what grit finish you went up to, and how you polish it.
 
I used a belt sander to 220 grit then hand sanded 80-120-220-320-400-600-800-1000-1500 then I etch and remove oxides with 0000steel wool I’ve been using vinegar and hydrogen peroxide as an etchant I’m not sure how to post a picture of it
 
i saw the photo, to have a hamon show well it has to be a clean sanded surface all at the same grit, 1000 would be fine. its hard to tell what is going on in the pic. it looks like there is a black line drawn with a magic marker where the hamon would normally be.
 
I’m wondering if the “hamon” you saw was where the clay was. You’re fighting an uphill battle right now because you have a small, clean blade area. I usually grind higher up the blade when going for hamon. It kind of looks like you still have decarb on the bevel near the ricasso.

How thick is your stock? You could more than likely take that grind up until 3/4 of the blade and still show the mill scale you want. Or even better, go full flat grind.
 
Josh Rider said:
I’m wondering if the “hamon” you saw was where the clay was. You’re fighting an uphill battle right now because you have a small, clean blade area. I usually grind higher up the blade when going for hamon. It kind of looks like you still have decarb on the bevel near the ricasso.

How thick is your stock? You could more than likely take that grind up until 3/4 of the blade and still show the mill scale you want. Or even better, go full flat grind.
Click to expand...
It’s at around 1/8th inch right now. That’s kinda what I was afraid of I have a pretty poor grinding set up and I’m pretty bad at grinding too haha
 
I would suggest you grind the bevels up 3/4 of the way to the spine and then sand and etch again. It's quite possible the hamon is under all that scale and decarb.
 
I ground it to 3/4 and still once I polish not showing anything but it is visible after an etch. I did a test piece and it showed after etching and polish. Is there anything else I can do to salvage it?
 
What are you using to etch and what strength solution? I had the same problem until I mixed a stronger solution. Not talking about going overboard with the solution strength, but strong enough to bring it out. Hope you get it sorted out, it can be aggravating for sure.
 
It's really hard to tell from the pics you've posted.....it's hard to see what's going on for sure. I'm not really clear on what stage this knife is in when you took the last pic. Is it etched? Polished?

To me, in that last pic, it doesn't look like the blade is very clean. It looks like there is some form of scale or decarb...perhaps from the clay you used. There is always a residual skin of 'crud' from the clay that needs to be ground off, as well as any scale and/or decarb to see true hamon.

True hamon is quite easy to see in decent light at a 120 grit (or even 60 grit) belt finish with no etching or polishing whatsoever. Any etching or polishing then makes it that much more visible.

Your blade looks like it's not ground down to clean good steel.....and if it is...then I'd question your heat treat as to whether you even have much in the way of hamon.

Some good clear pics that show the blade clean, then another etched, then another polished would be much more helpful.
 
Here's one of my blades post heat treat. It has a very rough 120 grit finish and NO etching or polishing whatsoever. It's seen in the fluorescent light above my grinder.

The steel is 1075. Notice how everything is more or less one even plane as far as the grind and there is no scaly/crusty/rough texture. I've ground the clay/residue and any decarb off, leaving the true hamon underneath clearly visible with no etching.

26808069449_3308aabca5_c.jpg
 
J. Doyle said:
It's really hard to tell from the pics you've posted.....it's hard to see what's going on for sure. I'm not really clear on what stage this knife is in when you took the last pic. Is it etched? Polished?

To me, in that last pic, it doesn't look like the blade is very clean. It looks like there is some form of scale or decarb...perhaps from the clay you used. There is always a residual skin of 'crud' from the clay that needs to be ground off, as well as any scale and/or decarb to see true hamon.

True hamon is quite easy to see in decent light at a 120 grit (or even 60 grit) belt finish with no etching or polishing whatsoever. Any etching or polishing then makes it that much more visible.

Your blade looks like it's not ground down to clean good steel.....and if it is...then I'd question your heat treat as to whether you even have much in the way of hamon.

Some good clear pics that show the blade clean, then another etched, then another polished would be much more helpful.
Click to expand...
The last picture is after I rubbed the oxides off but didn’t do much polishing and I was trying to leave a bit of the hammer marks on the blade. When I do etch it the real dark spot is about 1/2 away from the hammer and pitting stuff. I’ll try to re grind the whole thing flat and see then. By the way that blade is beautiful thank you
 
It would help if you took some better photos with your 1000 grit finish before etching. Once you dipped in ferric, it’s all dark and hard to make heads or tails of the hamon. I usually do quick dips in ferric then hard scrubbing with makeup pads.

As far as the steel wool goes, I don't use it. When I get to 1200 grit or so I’m using either flitz or more often 1500 powdered abrasives.

Start with a good clean sanded blade.
D1823D5A-F1E7-4730-AF57-1779BB40430D.jpeg
You’ll be able to see some hamon in the right light
E6DEBBAC-4EBE-4DD3-ABC3-E3078E2845AD.jpeg
After dipping in ferric or vinegar and scrubbing with makeup pad you should still see contrast.
007A1C83-4641-4216-BDF7-04F5066C348D.jpeg
The more you etch and polish, the more your hamon will present itself.
DEA207DC-219A-4CFA-B294-2A90327E7EBD.jpeg
I’m not sure who on here said it first, but it bears repeating, etch less polish more. Until you’re happy with what you have.
16B93E59-F209-484E-A783-71898D0FBCE2.jpeg
 

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Josh Rider said:
It would help if you took some better photos with your 1000 grit finish before etching. Once you dipped in ferric, it’s all dark and hard to make heads or tails of the hamon. I usually do quick dips in ferric then hard scrubbing with makeup pads.

As far as the steel wool goes, I don't use it. When I get to 1200 grit or so I’m using either flitz or more often 1500 powdered abrasives.

Start with a good clean sanded blade.
View attachment 804837
You’ll be able to see some hamon in the right light
View attachment 804840
After dipping in ferric or vinegar and scrubbing with makeup pad you should still see contrast.
View attachment 804841
The more you etch and polish, the more your hamon will present itself.
View attachment 804842
I’m not sure who on here said it first, but it bears repeating, etch less polish more. Until you’re happy with what you have.
View attachment 804843
Click to expand...
Thank you, I’m sorry I am horrible with taking pictures. I have to had messed something up bad somewhere after scrubbing with a makeup pad only about 1/16” of the edge stays real dark then it’s a bit dark half way of then a grayish whiteish for the rest. I did 2 test pieces and they showed fine easy I might just scrap this blade and try again some time thank you everyone for all the help
 
https://imgur.com/gallery/jCcTu
Re heat treated and quenched in water went to straighten a warp and about 1 inch broke off. Re ground it an polished turned out ok ish. I rushed everything so overall it turned out like crap but I’m more or less happy with it. I really need to find a way to slow down and take my time with these things
 
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