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Hamons and heavy use
- Thread starter AVigil
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- Dec 3, 1999
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What do you mean? Are you talking about things like edge holding, chipping, deforming, etc.? Or the blade finish itself?
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- Feb 17, 2009
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I am talking about the visual of the Hamon. As you use the knife and the blade gets scraped up and used heavily does the hamon get diminished from heavy use or does it get diminished visually when you clean up the blade?
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- Jul 13, 2011
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Yes, the hamon will dull. It depends on the knife, though. Some knives that are differentially heat-treated aren't really meant to show the hamon, and you can barely see them even with a clean, polished blade. Other knives show a very prominent hamon. The way to preserve a hamon--from what I understand--is to either keep it real clean and polished, or re-etch it. The hamon comes out prominently either from a traditional, extensive polish (like in Japan), or by etching with acids, etc.
The hamon itself is a permanent metallurgical feature of the blade revealed through polishing and/or etching. The only way to remove it is to grind the edge completely away through the hamon, or to heat the blade to the critical temperature, or thereabouts....
It may become difficult to see if the polish on the blade is degraded, but it is still there....
It may become difficult to see if the polish on the blade is degraded, but it is still there....
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- Dec 3, 1999
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While what you see in a hamon is actually in the steel... its presentation is in the surface finish/treatment of the blade. The higher the finish was taken to, the more delicate it is. If you take a blade that's been sanded to 1500 or 2500 grit followed by etching cycles and polishing with loose abrasives and go scrape the hell out of it, you're going to damage that finish.
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Thanks guys that is what I needed to know.
I was thinking of buying a blade with a nice hamon but if it can not be used without ruining it I will have to pass on it. I already have to many knives that are safe queens
I was thinking of buying a blade with a nice hamon but if it can not be used without ruining it I will have to pass on it. I already have to many knives that are safe queens
- Joined
- Dec 3, 1999
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- 9,437
Whoa, I'm not saying you CAN'T use a blade with a hamon. There are plenty of guys, Matt Lamey is the first one that comes to my mind, that make clay hardened blades that are MEANT to be used. Matt does many of his blades with a finish that shows the hamon, but isn't so fine you wouldn't use the knife.
Now if it's a blade that was taken to a super fine finish, that was most likely meant to be a collector piece. If you ask the maker of the knife in question and he says he did a super fine finish, he'd probably be able to make you one with a more user friendly polish. Just my $0.02
Now if it's a blade that was taken to a super fine finish, that was most likely meant to be a collector piece. If you ask the maker of the knife in question and he says he did a super fine finish, he'd probably be able to make you one with a more user friendly polish. Just my $0.02
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- Jul 8, 2008
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on my personal blades, I like to put a 2000 grit handsanded finish, so that the steel is really smooth and it helps the blade slip through things. I put that finish on knowing that it will get messed up, just the way i like my own knife. I was having probllems getting hamons, and quench lines showing up in the final finished up to about 4 months ago.
The knife that I had finished up before I figured out etching, barely showed a quench line when it was finsihed, but after a couple deer, rabbits, and an elk, you can really see the quecnh line well. it is pattinaed pretty good, and the patina affected the hard part diferently than the soft part. looks reallly cool.
The knife that I had finished up before I figured out etching, barely showed a quench line when it was finsihed, but after a couple deer, rabbits, and an elk, you can really see the quecnh line well. it is pattinaed pretty good, and the patina affected the hard part diferently than the soft part. looks reallly cool.
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I am still not sure if OP is asking about the cosmetic appearance of the hamon itself or about how the hamon affects performance...
So I'll answer both. Answer to the first is above. Answer to the second: the hamon looks pretty, but it serves a real purpose... rather, the differential heat treat that causes it serves a real purpose. It was invented for a very good reason. Swords used in battle in feudal Japan were coming back broken due to a brittle heat treat, and so the sword makers were ordered to find a solution. Enter differential heat treating, coating the spine of the blade and the edge with different thicknesses of clay, causing the spine and edge to cool and harden differently when quenched (which also causes the Katana to curve). The combination of softer spine and hard edge allowed the same cutting performance with much greater toughness.
But to be honest, on a small knife that doesn't even really matter. The blade is probably never going to be under the kind of stress a sword will be under (especially in battle), and a knife can be made much harder. I think I read somewhere that European swords in feudal times were only hardened to 40-50Rc to make them very tough (since they didn't discover differential heat treatment).
As for your knife, if it has a beautiful hamon that is very active with lots of clearly distinct activity and swirls that just "pop," then I'd say don't use it. That's art and you would ruin it. There are millions of knives that are more appropriate for use. But then again, do whatever you want with your knives; they are yours.
Get a real pre-Meiji period Japanese katana by a famous smith... and use it to make fuzz sticks and cut cheese and sausage, for example.
So I'll answer both. Answer to the first is above. Answer to the second: the hamon looks pretty, but it serves a real purpose... rather, the differential heat treat that causes it serves a real purpose. It was invented for a very good reason. Swords used in battle in feudal Japan were coming back broken due to a brittle heat treat, and so the sword makers were ordered to find a solution. Enter differential heat treating, coating the spine of the blade and the edge with different thicknesses of clay, causing the spine and edge to cool and harden differently when quenched (which also causes the Katana to curve). The combination of softer spine and hard edge allowed the same cutting performance with much greater toughness.
But to be honest, on a small knife that doesn't even really matter. The blade is probably never going to be under the kind of stress a sword will be under (especially in battle), and a knife can be made much harder. I think I read somewhere that European swords in feudal times were only hardened to 40-50Rc to make them very tough (since they didn't discover differential heat treatment).
As for your knife, if it has a beautiful hamon that is very active with lots of clearly distinct activity and swirls that just "pop," then I'd say don't use it. That's art and you would ruin it. There are millions of knives that are more appropriate for use. But then again, do whatever you want with your knives; they are yours.
Get a real pre-Meiji period Japanese katana by a famous smith... and use it to make fuzz sticks and cut cheese and sausage, for example. 
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You can do a quick finish that shows some of the hamon but not all the nuances that a high polish brings out. On a heavy user I have gone to bead blasting. This frosts the softer spine area and brings up some of the beauty of the Hamon. IF it is beat up I can just bead blast it again and it is returned almost to original condition. If there are deep scratches then it take more effort. Also this is one reason for a take down like Karl Anderson's knives. If you do want a polish and scratch it up then it can be disassembled and refinished. I had a santoku veggi knife that I used for a year. I had polished it out and it showed a very pretty and active hamon. Well using the knife in the kitchen the blade had a dark patina and little hamon showed. I took some simichrome and polished off the patina. It looked almost like new, just some minor scratches. So the hamons are user friendly but the level of polish can cause problems.