Hand filling my first Karambit

M

Musicman88

Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
80
Hey everyone I’m new at knife making and have already started crafting my first karambit.

I decided to laser cut my design on UHB20C (1095 equivalent) 3.5mm and went ahead and started filing.

I built a filing jig and it works fairly well. I managed to get side a and b edge bevel identical and for my first go, I was pretty pleased with the outcome.

I wanted to add another bevel to the spine and my side a went very well. Started filling side b upper bevel and noticed that theres a spot that is extremely hard and barely fillable. Im aware that this probably is due to getting the knife laser cut and that that was a hot spot if you will...

My question:
Is there a way to get the knife softer so i can file these spots better? Will tempering in the oven help with this? Any help is greatly appreciated!

PS This will be the last knife I will ever hand file. Im not a stranger to elbow grease but damn... Might get one of those ken onion blade grinding machines for the next time (i know its not a belt sander but ive seen people make knives on those things and they turned out pretty well. Also not as costly as a belt sander)

Thanks in advance
 
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I am no expert compared to some of these guys here and I learn something new everyday reading here, but I know my way around to make a knife well. You can soften the blade you are trying to file by a process called annealing. Heat the entire blade to around 1500F and cool it slowly. Of course you need a way to heat the blade to 1500. What kind of heat source do you have? I just bought a bag of Vermiculite which is a good insulator and commonly used to anneal but I haven’t used it yet. In the past I’ve used sand but I think you will have better luck with vermiculite. You can do more research about annealing on the internet to get a better understanding. Also I’m not sure if a ken onion sharpener is any good to make a knife. (I have a work sharp and wish I never bought it). I’ve never heard of any people doing so, so I don’t have all the facts. I personally started off with a 1x30 and a 8in bench grinder along with files and that was fine before getting a 2x42. Which isn’t pro but it’s waaayyy better than a 1x30. I hear that the 1x30 isn’t too bad though for putting in bevels and profiling if you buy ceramic belts for it. But if you stay in the game definitely get at least a 2x42 and if you can a 2x72 is best.
 
Diego_B said:
I am no expert compared to some of these guys here and I learn something new everyday reading here, but I know my way around to make a knife well. You can soften the blade you are trying to file by a process called annealing. Heat the entire blade to around 1500F and cool it slowly. Of course you need a way to heat the blade to 1500. What kind of heat source do you have? I just bought a bag of Vermiculite which is a good insulator and commonly used to anneal but I haven’t used it yet. In the past I’ve used sand but I think you will have better luck with vermiculite. You can do more research about annealing on the internet to get a better understanding. Also I’m not sure if a ken onion sharpener is any good to make a knife. (I have a work sharp and wish I never bought it). I’ve never heard of any people doing so, so I don’t have all the facts. I personally started off with a 1x30 and a 8in bench grinder along with files and that was fine before getting a 2x42. Which isn’t pro but it’s waaayyy better than a 1x30. I hear that the 1x30 isn’t too bad though for putting in bevels and profiling if you buy ceramic belts for it. But if you stay in the game definitely get at least a 2x42 and if you can a 2x72 is best.
Click to expand...

Hey Diego thank you for your words. Im planning on using a good old fashioned coal forge out in the garden to heat treat the blade so no exact measurements as far as heat degrees. As knifemaking to me is purely just a hobby and im really not thinking of taking it further than that im just trying not to spend too much on hardware which is why im using basic things like files and a coal forge. I have done some research on heat treating 1095 and have gotten mixed views, some say normalize 3-4 times others say you only need to normalize once others stated that if its almost orange its time to quench, i mean a lot of people have different opinions on the subject. I even found color charts for different temperatures which I will probably adopt as i wont have any other indications as to what temp the blade is to quench. Would 1500f be a sort of solid red color? I for one dont really know anything beyond what i researched read and watched, so this is me experimenting really and advice from people who made knives before is well appreciated! As for a grinder, im really trying to not spend anything more than 250 euros.

Thanks again man
 
Heat the blade up until it’s non magnetic. Then heat it for an additional thirty seconds and let it cool in a bucket of vermiculite or ashes. Once it’s cool it will be annealed and soft enough to do anything you want to do with it.
 
W
Blackdirt cowboy said:
Heat the blade up until it’s non magnetic. Then heat it for an additional thirty seconds and let it cool in a bucket of vermiculite or ashes. Once it’s cool it will be annealed and soft enough to do anything you want to do with it.
Click to expand...
Thank you, will it mess with the current work that ive done to it?
 
I have a simpler suggestion to try first, hoping that the hardened area isn't too deep.
Wrap some coarse (60 grit) sand paper around a file or other backing and try to get through the affected area.
 
Richard338 said:
I have a simpler suggestion to try first, hoping that the hardened area isn't too deep.
Wrap some coarse (60 grit) sand paper around a file or other backing and try to get through the affected area.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your suggestion Richard, i will definitely try it and report back!
 
Musicman88 said:
Hey Diego thank you for your words. Im planning on using a good old fashioned coal forge out in the garden to heat treat the blade so no exact measurements as far as heat degrees. As knifemaking to me is purely just a hobby and im really not thinking of taking it further than that im just trying not to spend too much on hardware which is why im using basic things like files and a coal forge. I have done some research on heat treating 1095 and have gotten mixed views, some say normalize 3-4 times others say you only need to normalize once others stated that if its almost orange its time to quench, i mean a lot of people have different opinions on the subject. I even found color charts for different temperatures which I will probably adopt as i wont have any other indications as to what temp the blade is to quench. Would 1500f be a sort of solid red color? I for one dont really know anything beyond what i researched read and watched, so this is me experimenting really and advice from people who made knives before is well appreciated! As for a grinder, im really trying to not spend anything more than 250 euros.

Thanks again man
Click to expand...
Try to not over think this too much like I do but yes, normalize 3 times at least and if you can try and decrease the temperature each time you do so so say 1500,1400,1300,etc again it’s not very necessary but you can do it. Be careful not to over heat for too long so you don’t grow grain. Trust me it sucks. It’s hard for me to say what color to look for at 1500 because you and I see color differently and too many variables such as light come into play so that’s why we go by a magnet 1500 should be a shade higher than what non magnetic is so find when the moment the blade loses magnetism and go a shade above that color. As far as the steel 1095 I’ve heard mixed reviews on it and I’m still trying to make up my mind about it. But 1095 needs a super fast quench from what I understand so like water but the thing that get me is that I read you really need an oven to heat treat it because they say 1095 likes to soak at 1500 for 5-10 mins in order to gain the most from this steel. I myself have used 1095 with no problems and I don’t have a $2,000 oven to heat treat it in I just heat to critical and do an interrupted quench in brine then take it out and go to 130F canola oil. But I will probably be making a post here myself later discussing 1095 trying to get to the bottom of it. Anyways if your budget is 250 euros so $300 you can get a 1x30 or a 2x42 here’s the links
https://www.amazon.com/EX-ELECTRONI...ywords=1x30+belt+sander&qid=1602699830&sr=8-5
https://www.amazon.com/Palmgren-Bel...elt+sander&qid=1602700403&sprefix=2x42&sr=8-4
 
Blackdirt cowboy said:
Heat the blade up until it’s non magnetic. Then heat it for an additional thirty seconds and let it cool in a bucket of vermiculite or ashes. Once it’s cool it will be annealed and soft enough to do anything you want to do with it.
Click to expand...
30 seconds can be a long time depending on the heat source, the OP is using a coal forge and 30 seconds in a coal forge with a blade that’s pre beveled can be the difference between just right and burning the steel off. Most likely the piece doesn’t need to go through annealing it, like Richard suggested take some coarse paper and break the edge with that then go back to the file and you should be fine.
 
Josh Rider said:
Do you have an angle grinder? If it’s just the HAZ you could probably zip it off pretty quick.
Click to expand...
The humble 4.5in angle grinder can do it all really. It’s the all in one power tool everyone should have. Highly recommend to get one if you don’t already.
 
Diego_B said:
Try to not over think this too much like I do but yes, normalize 3 times at least and if you can try and decrease the temperature each time you do so so say 1500,1400,1300,etc again it’s not very necessary but you can do it. Be careful not to over heat for too long so you don’t grow grain. Trust me it sucks. It’s hard for me to say what color to look for at 1500 because you and I see color differently and too many variables such as light come into play so that’s why we go by a magnet 1500 should be a shade higher than what non magnetic is so find when the moment the blade loses magnetism and go a shade above that color. As far as the steel 1095 I’ve heard mixed reviews on it and I’m still trying to make up my mind about it. But 1095 needs a super fast quench from what I understand so like water but the thing that get me is that I read you really need an oven to heat treat it because they say 1095 likes to soak at 1500 for 5-10 mins in order to gain the most from this steel. I myself have used 1095 with no problems and I don’t have a $2,000 oven to heat treat it in I just heat to critical and do an interrupted quench in brine then take it out and go to 130F canola oil. But I will probably be making a post here myself later discussing 1095 trying to get to the bottom of it. Anyways if your budget is 250 euros so $300 you can get a 1x30 or a 2x42 here’s the links
https://www.amazon.com/EX-ELECTRONI...ywords=1x30+belt+sander&qid=1602699830&sr=8-5
https://www.amazon.com/Palmgren-Bel...elt+sander&qid=1602700403&sprefix=2x42&sr=8-4
Click to expand...
Thanks for the links Diego, I was always on the fence when looking at similar products on amazon but glad to see someone vouch for them!

uhb20c although a 1095 equivalent is a much cleaner version of it apparently (dont know if this will translate during heat treatment and quench)
 
Joshua Fisher said:
30 seconds can be a long time depending on the heat source, the OP is using a coal forge and 30 seconds in a coal forge with a blade that’s pre beveled can be the difference between just right and burning the steel off. Most likely the piece doesn’t need to go through annealing it, like Richard suggested take some coarse paper and break the edge with that then go back to the file and you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Joshua, I will definitely try this, as Richard suggested, gotta find 60grit sandpaper.
 
Josh Rider said:
Do you have an angle grinder? If it’s just the HAZ you could probably zip it off pretty quick.
Click to expand...
I was originally thinking about the angle grinder route before starting this project and got a little discouraged by the noise levels as I live in a ground floor apartment. I really want to be a courteous neighbor and keep noise as close to minimal as possible. Courtesy is a rare thing nowadays...
 
So heres my blade thus far thought Id share
IMG-2421.jpg
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It's easiest to upload them to imgur, then post the bb link. This will show your pics directly.
 
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