Hand Rub before or after handle attachmetn?

etp777

etp777

Joined
Aug 12, 2002
Messages
2,259
OK, i know I was informed on this with my first knife, but I can't remember the answer, and can't find those threads anymore(been a while now, finally getting some more done).

Anyways, I have a knife here that will get ti's finish grind tomorrow(was workign on it tonight but then i realized I was probably annoying neighbors) so i need to know whether I hand rub before or after I attach the handles. Thanks guys. :)
 
I always finish rub and polish the blade after the handle has been completely finished. This partly because the blade is sometimes placed in a vise while filing on handle material and also because the blade is moved about alot while finishing the handle, bolsters, etc..

In fact, I finish the blade steel (the final polishing) just before appying the edge - applying the edge is the very last thing I do to complete the knife except for a few coats of gun stock wax to a wooden handle,

Roger
 
Me..I will finish grind--then hand rub--then set the guard and etch my name on and clean up the solder and then re-check the blade to make sure it is all done with no funny scratches--Then I tape the blade all the way against the giard--handle attachment and final sanding of handle and guard and buff finish off the knife..
Bruce
 
My blades are all pretty much finished before handles are attached.. Then again I dont hand rub anything.. Screw construction handles make this a non problem..
 
What Bruce said.

Along with this, especially since I started making primarily hidden tang knives, I try to finish as close to possible each piece prior to assembly. First the blade of course, then the guard, then the handle then the buttcap.

C Wilkins
 
Particularly for a hand rubbed finish you must completely finish the blade before applying the handle. Otherwise you will have little "hook" marks where you start the rub near the guard. You cannot get a good even finish with the guard in the way.

This also suggests that you cannot solder a hand rubbed blade; the cleanup will ruin the finish. This is not so much an issue with a mirror polished blade as you can blend the polish afterwards. But even then you may have differences between the blade's initial finish and the cleanup finish around the guard.

For this reason, I strongly suggest you completely finish the blade before you apply the handle, and tape it up carefully like Bruce does.

Try to resist the urge to take the tape off before the handle is completed! This eliminates the possibility of getting some small ding from just handling it. This is very hard to do, though - particularly if it takes a few weekends to complete the handle... :) Admirin' is a big part of our work!
 
I do much the same as Bruce and Dave. You can handrub a knife with a soldered guard, without turnaround marks, but it is real time consuming, and a major PITA.:D In case it wasn't mentioned above, use the blue 3M masking tape on the blade. It comes off much easier than regular masking tape. Use a couple of layers on each side. If epoxy oozes onto the blade during handle assembly, just give it about 25 minutes to setup a little, and rub off the excess with a cotton swab soaked in Acetone. Make sure to use leather pads, or= if you put the blade in a vise, even with tape on.;)
 
If you need to clean up a hand rubbed blade after soldering on the guard.You can go ahead and buff the solder joint and front of the guard,then tape off the front of the guard and then take a dull utility knife blade (you know like a stanley cutter were it is like a razor blade )without the handle and wrap a piece of sand paper over this and with the sharp edge you can slide down the tape and hit the junction of guard and blade then pull down the blade and finish out this way.It works great:cool:
Bruce
 
This may sound odd,put I do 95 percent of my knife before HT
I grind it,hand sand it to 400 grit,I get it back from HT
hit it on the grinder with a 400 grit to get the HT coloring off
then I go to 600 grit and put the handle on.I don't know if any one else does this or not,but it does not take long to finish afer HT
:)
 
That will work with Stainless Nathan BUT not with carbon steel.Too much scale after heat treat on Carbon.And when I have tried to get that close to finished size before heat treat with carbon steel I always ended up with a lot of warpage and stainless won't do that even at thin sections,Just like you don't want to grind back edges on carbon before HT as it also causes warpage..
That is one advantage to using Stainless over Carbon though.
Bruce
 
Bruce
I never knew that,I work with D2 so I can go that route
Very interesting.I learn somthing new about knifemaking everyday:)
 
I learned it the hard way myself...Nothing worse than putting all that time in a blade just to ruin it in the heat treat..Makes you say bad words.
Bruce
 
I regularly take my blades to around 95 percent finished with at least a 320 grit finish before heat treat. The little bit of scale that isn't blown off in the quench usually doesn't take long to knock off even by hand. After that I completely finish the blade, etch my mark and then tape it up before I do bolsters and put the scales on.

I've been extremely lucky so far in the heat treat with no warping even with the thin edges. Normalize, normalize, normalize! I know that sooner or later there will be a warped blade. :D I just haven't made enough knives yet.
 
I like Bruce Evan's method. In a discussion recently with some experienced makers, all of them chimed in with slight variations on Bruce's method. I also solder & finish more or less like he does, so I can say its been a good way to go for me.

Bob
 
Well, finally got this thing done. It is FAR from perfect, BUT it is also the best looking knife I've made so far by a long shot. So thanks for all the tips.

Bruce, your tutorial was very helpful(in addition to your advice). If you still have a problem of going from 600 to 1500 grit, as you mentioned in the tutorial, then you might try going by Pep Boys. I got 320, 400 and 600 grits from Home Depot, and then 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit from Pep Boys. It's good 3M wet/dry paper. Not sure what the grit material is made of, but this stuff has worked well for me for various things for yeras, and now seems to for knives too.

I'll post a picture when it's all done, sometime later this week. Did rough profiling of the guards a few minutes ago. Or almost did, they're side by side on a 2" piece of brass, I cut out the middle section, now I just need to cutr that end offt he brass. Want hacksaw for that though, so have to wait till I go home.
 
Bump to make sure Bruce sees the last message(since I just edited an old one insetad of posting again). I thought board would bump it up for that
 
Thanks etp777..I finally found me some paper all the way to 2000 grit at the local NAPA store ( we don't have a Pep Boys any where around here,just Auto Zone and NAPA)..It sure does make my finishes allot nicer with the proper grits to go thru.
Glad the tutorial was of some help..
Thanks for the advice again..
Bruce
 
Just to make a correction on what I said about stainless...It will warp in the heat treat if you are not careful with the grinds.I don't use stainless and was just saying what I have been told about it and I have been corrected.And so I am correcting what I said.
Bruce
 
Bruce
Do you have any input on on D2? Also Would you put all stainless in the same the same category?
 
Bruce is right. Last year I was doing alot of stainless stock removal (440C mostly). With the stainless I was able to grind very thin with no warpage. The past year or so I've been doing all carbon steel (I only do stainless if it's an order)and I have to leave the blades pretty thick before I start my heat treating. Most of the knife blades I do are between 2"-6" so that doesn't leave alot of regrinding room. Best off to leave them a bit thick.
 
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