Handgun Recommendation ?

I'll tone down my usual Glock dislike except to say that there are far more ND's with Glocks than 1911's. The 1911 is designed to be carried cocked and locked. There are three safeties to overcome before it will shoot; thumb safety, grip safety, and pulling the trigger. It is inherently a safer pistol to CCW. If I was allowed that constitutional priviliage (sp?) in this craphole state of Illinois, I would be carrying my Colt CCO at all times.
 
Thanks, RoadRunner. I don't know *what* I was thinking...maybe "North Dakotan's?" ;)

GeoThorn
 
BlackDPlus,

If the objective here is to identify that self-loading pistol which will make you feel most comfortable carrying with a live round in the chamber, then the H&K P7 is what you're looking for. It's not that hard to explain why in writing, but you'd gain a far greater appreciation for the veracity of this statement if you were somehow able to physically manipulate one. That it's also the fastest and very near the most accurate semi-auto duty sidearm you'll find is just icing on the cake (which is important because the price unfortunately takes some of that icing away ;) ).

If, on the other hand, you can't see yourself carrying your pistol with a round in the chamber under any circumstances, then it doesn't really matter if the pistol has an external safety at all, does it? It does, however, open up a whole slew of new possibilities as all self-loading are more or less equally safe when carried with an empty chamber. One that hasn't been mentioned here, but which has impressed me greatly, is the Walther P99. It's light, accurate, well made and features interchangeable backstrap inserts which allow you to customize the grip fit based on the size and shape of your own hand.
 
if ya are comfy with a double action revolver loaded i cant see why ya wouldnt be comfy with a loaded kahr.

i have occasionally thought that it wouldnt be a bad idea for glock to make a frame mounted safety ala 1911 available on there stuff, but what do i know? i dont like to carry one except in a holster, myself. it is one of the ones ya gotta be extra careful with imho.

kahrs are different though.
 
BlackDPlus said:
I'm a decent shot, but don't get consistant groups. I could work on this
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If you're a "decent shot", you should be getting consistent groups.

If you are not getting consistent groups, you are not a "decent shot".

Work on it. Now.

BlackDPlus said:
I can't get past the idea of not having an external safety button.
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Why did you buy a Glock?

Apart from that, the only safety device you really need is between your ears.

BlackDPlus said:
My biggest problem is that I can't bring myself to carry with one in the chamber. I know it's safe and all but I think I just mentally need that extra measure of safety.

My opinion is that you need to be totally comfortable with your gun. I'm not. And, not having a round in the chamber isn't right with me either.
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I think you might need to consider whether any gun is right for you.

If you are afraid of your personal defence device, you are handicapping yourself. You are also ensuring that there is a gun involved in any confrontation you encounter; a gun which you are afraid to use, but your opponent might not be...

BlackDPlus said:
am I being silly about the Glock ?
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Yep.

Please note: I am not being disrespectful or insulting to you. I just feel that you need to reconsider your needs and/or equipment.

If the issue of safety is paramount and - as it seems - you are not a "gun person", I urge you to consider a stainless steel, 4" barrelled revolver in .38 Special.

It is utterly reliable, low-maintenance, as safe as a handgun gets and non-intimidating to the user.

Then get to the range and practice, practice, practice.

maximus otter
 
Gollnick said:
Hell is:

A British chef
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Gordon Ramsay
Franco Pierre White
Rick Stein
Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall
Clarissa Dickson-Wright
Nigella Lawson

... and so on would disagree!

Do you know, I named all the above off the top of my head, but I can't name a single internationally-renowned American chef?

maximus otter
 
I'm not trying to be a smart ass or hijack this thread but I have a question.

I quess my age is showing and maybe I'm an old fart who is just as hopelessly out of date as a dinosuar, but has the revolver gone completly as out of date as a model T?

I have noticed that when I go to the range, I'm the only one there shooting revolvers, exept if there is another shooter there with "snow on the roof." I even talked with one young man who was a marine vet who had never shot one. He was there with his Glock and he WAS good with it, but he thought my old Smith & Wesson was novel. He found shooting it a strange experiance. Especally as I told him my grandaddy had that gun in WW1.( A S&W 1917)

Like I say- I'm not trying to be a smartass. Just curious that when folks talk about guns these days there's no mention of the wheelguns.
 
Wheelguns are probably perceived like slipjoints. I have both semi's and wheelguns, when it comes to shooting, I greatly prefer the wheelguns. I find it interesting that I took my 15 year old nephew shooting a couple of months ago, and he kept coming back to my Ruger .357. We shot 1911's, Glocks, and the Rugers, and he kept liking the way the Ruger shot over them all. I do too. Don't get me wrong, I like them all, but for different reasons.

I appreciate the ruggedness and simplicity of the Glock, the history and ruggedness of the 1911, but the Ruger to me is more versatile. You can store it for long periods of time without worrying about fatiguing springs, handload lots of different powers of bullets for experimentation without worrying about abusing it or whether or not it will chamber the next round, etc. It's also easier to police up your brass after shooting the wheelgun. ;) Of course, it has some limitations that the others don't. Talking concealment, then the others start pulling ahead, as well as number of rounds available.

My wife, who's not interested in guns, got a wheelgun for the exact same reasons that Glockman described: just point it and pull the trigger. End of story.

Of course, for pure shooting pleasure, I'll take a single action, but I don't think that it would be appropriate for self defense over the other choices. Better than nothing, of course.

PS - Maximus, we have *many* famous chefs. We have Ronald McDonald, and the Burger King, just to name two! ;) :D :p
 
maximus otter said:
Do you know, I named all the above off the top of my head, ...
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You did say internationally reknown didn't you? ;)
Back to the drawing board with you, young man. :)
 
jackknife said:
Like I say- I'm not trying to be a smartass. Just curious that when folks talk about guns these days there's no mention of the wheelguns.
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I don't think they have quite as much of the gee whiz factor anymore, but if you look around they are still popular. www.thehighroad.org has a whole forum dedicated to them :D
Personally I'm just getting started and have one auto and one revolver. I like them both for different reasons. The revolver is a single action and the trigger is sweet, it has a nice balance for target shooting, doesn't spit brass all over, lots of stuff going for it.
My auto, although being a big gun, is more concealable/carryable. Carries more rounds, and while not being quite as much of a tack driver, it handles quicker. I also really like the fact that I don't have to handle any loose rounds or empty brass to reload. I know they make speed loaders and all that, but its still much more of a skill to be proficient reloading a revolver under stress than to slap a mag in and release the slide lock.
So for hunting or target shooting, I would say the old wheelguns are probably superior, but for defense situations I personally will reach for an auto.
 
i love to play with revolvers but dont edc them anymore and havent for a long long time now, i find a glock 26/27/33 or a kahr P9 or PM9 a lot flatter/lighter/easier to conceal on a day to day basis. nothing against them, just harder to fool with every day for me.
 
Gollnick--

I heard it as:

Heaven is where the:
Police are Bristish (that's for you, Max!)
Cooks are French
Mechanics are German
Lovers are Italian
and everything is managed by the Swiss.

Hell is where the:
Police are German
Cooks are British
Mechanics are French
Lovers are Swiss
and everything is managed by the Italians.

As far as this thread goes, for my money, handgun heaven is where the:

revolvers are American (S&W)

semiautos are German/ Austrian (HK, Glock)
 
glockman99 said:
Joe...Haven't you heard that when under a deadly attack that "fine motor skills" aren't very fine anymore, and that if you don't pull the slide ALL THE WAY back, and let it SNAP forward, that a round could jam going into the chamber?..To me, that's just too much that could go wrong at the wrong time.

This is why I like my fully-loaded Glock pistols...Just point and shoot.
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Glockman... Like I said, I'm a civilian - I only carry when I'm out of my environment, and I'm not likely to get into any sort of situation where I would expect to need to carry loaded (isn't that one of the first rules of street survival? :D ) to avoid that situation of reduced fine skills... In the mean time, this is the safest way for me to deal with my reality...

And I wouldn't recommend it to anyone having to actually go into harm's way - under those circumstances, Yes, I would not hesitate to carry either my Glock or my 1911 loaded... I just don't need to in my life and it just may prevent an ND under virtually any condition I might encounter...

BTW - I have woken in a cold sweat, remembering vestiges of dark dreams where I actually failed to adequately rack the slide and ended up w/a missfeed... :(
 
Don't take this the wrong way, but you do realize that the bad guys don't tend to announce their intent and give you time to load up before commencing hostilities. If you are carrying a gun, and you need to use your gun, then you need to be able to use it RIGHT NOW. I work as a police officer in a fairly good size city. You'd be suprised the percentage of violent attacks that happen in "good" parts of town. Its like shark attacks in less than 3 ft of water. Thats where the majority of the good prey is located. If you honestly think that you will be able to respond to an armed assailant coming at you and intent on doing you or your loved ones harm by drawing, chambering, and firing, than I think you are sorely handicapping yourself. A unloaded gun is a poor substitute for a club. If you don't feel safe carrying a loaded chamber than you either need to spend more time training until you do feel safe, or reevaluate WHY you are carrying a weapon. Take it from someone who has made more than one homicide scene where the victim wasn't able to draw their weapon before they went down. Action ALWAYS is faster than reaction, why put yourself even further behind the curve? Again, don't take this as a personal attack, I just feel strongly about this and have seen enough real people shot in enough different ways to convince me that the "Mossad method" of carrying on an empty chamber is about as real world practical as spinning heel kicks to the head, stripping a Berreta while its pointed at you, and deliberately shooting to wound. But its your butt, not mine, so do what you like.
 
Copaup said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but you do realize that the bad guys don't tend to announce their intent and give you time to load up before commencing hostilities. ... Take it from someone who has made more than one homicide scene where the victim wasn't able to draw their weapon before they went down.
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Copaup... I appreciate what you are trying to convey, especially as an LEO talking to someone totally unknown to him... I'm not trained in any martial arts (college Judo doesn't count!) nor in retention methods... Just a civilian who knows which end of the weapon the bullets come out... As you stated, you've shown up where the victims didn't even have time to draw... And that's what I learned sooo long ago - if the BG's have the ability to get that much jump on me, whether my piece is loaded or not is irrelevent as I probably won't be able to use it...

But, if I do have that moment, for whatever reason, I've practiced the draw/rack and aim from my primary carry position enough to figure I can get through those first moments okay... And, if by chance my weapon is taken from me before I've drawn, well, that gives me the moment to go to alternate plan "B" while the BG is trying to figure out why my gun isn't working...

And like I said, this only works for me because I've chosen that route... and am willing to live (or die) by that choice... Just know that I am comfortable enough to carry loaded if I DO forsee any situation that I should worry about where I am...

And I do appreciate your concern!
 
Mongo said:
I'll tone down my usual Glock dislike except to say that there are far more ND's with Glocks than 1911's.
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With respect, unless one can provide hard data on this, and likely one cannot, this needs to go onto the pile of baseless statements.

The staggering majority of carried-loaded-handgun-hours in the United States are with Glocks and the number of negligent discharges, (I admit, without a hard figure to quote) is statistically insignificant. What we can know with certainty is that hundreds of thousands of American Police Officers carry Glocks twenty-four-seven and the incidents of NDs are rare enough to be well known for their occurrence. -In other words, the exceptions that prove the rule.
 
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