Handle Material

[Kyle Royer]

I have a collector in Alaska that loves Mammoth and Walrus Ivory on his users.

I prefer African Blackwood, desert Ironwood and stag for my users.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Not so sure getting an ergonomically correct handle from stag while retaining it's beautiful look and texture is all that much of an issue. Now granted, if a user were to send a maker a mold of his hand for that PERFECT FIT, then yes wood may be best to assure exact execution.

Those of you who have skinned big game know that grip and comfort in hand are extremely important considering the fluid/fat that can accumulate on your handle. IMO, grip is second to the blade's ability to hold an edge. Perhaps even more important if you want to keep all your fingers.

Thought I would share some examples of well executed stag handles and add a little color to this thread. Hope you don't mind Josh.

Coop, Chuck Ward and Point Seven photos:

 

[RogerP]

Not so sure getting an ergonomically correct handle from stag while retaining it's beautiful look and texture is all that much of an issue.

"All that much of an issue" isn't a terribly precise phrase - and in any event, misses the point. At least, it misses my point - which is that wood (and obviously, synthetics as well) offers the maker maximum versatility in shaping the handle to his / his customer's ergonomic ideal - because it can be shaped in all dimensions and on all surfaces.

It's interesting that all your examples are stag scales, mortise fit to the tang. When it comes to tapers and carvers, of course, the dimensions are more firmly cast by mother nature. But even in this case, the circumference of the scales can be shaped, and depending on how much material was there to begin with, their thickness can be adjusted. But the surface of the stag itself cannot be shaped. That's a pretty big "don't grind here" zone, relative to the entire surface area of the handle. You can't add much in terms of palm swells or dishing out the back third of the handle. You are pretty much shaping in two dimensions.

Can you still make an ergonomically sound handle this way? Of course. I very much doubt anyone would dispute that. Does the maker have more options to realize his concept of superior ergonomics when shaping wood? You bet he does. And the benefits are by no means restricted to the surely uncommon circumstance of shaping a handle to an actual mold of the client's hand (a practice in respect of which, I will confess, I am quite unfamiliar).

It would be possible to render any of the handle designs you have shown in wood or synthetic? You bet. You wouldn't have the natural stag texture, but texturing wood or synthetic is not exactly hard. It would be pretty much not an option, however, to render any of the handle designs below in stag. Which is rather the point.

I'm not against stag. It is probably my single favourite handle material, period. But it does present limitations from a design standpoint.

Roger

 

[Starkman1]

I'm a sucker for a nice piece of stag. I don't care for any of the synthetic materials. Wood does have its place, but too me it depends on the style knife.
Bob

 

[Kevin Jones]

"All that much of an issue" isn't a terribly precise phrase - and in any event, misses the point. At least, it misses my point - which is that wood (and obviously, synthetics as well) offers the maker maximum versatility in shaping the handle to his / his customer's ergonomic ideal - because it can be shaped in all dimensions and on all surfaces.

I love stag - but the piece either fits your hand or it doesn't. You can't shape it too much without detracting from the beauty of the stag.

I'm not disputing that wood and synthetics are easier to shape, I just don't agree with your point above. Mortised stag or stag carvers can be shaped into ergonomically correct and beautiful handles. They are very common in that makers do it every day. By the way "too much" isn't terribly precise either.

It's interesting that all your examples are stag scales, mortise fit to the tang. When it comes to tapers and carvers, of course, the dimensions are more firmly cast by mother nature. But even in this case, the circumference of the scales can be shaped, and depending on how much material was there to begin with, their thickness can be adjusted. But the surface of the stag itself cannot be shaped. That's a pretty big "don't grind here" zone, relative to the entire surface area of the handle. You can't add much in terms of palm swells or dishing out the back third of the handle. You are pretty much shaping in two dimensions.

Not too interesting that my examples were all mortised. I just prefer knives with mortised or frame handles.
Here's three more examples (stag carvers/tapers) from my collection that I assure you have very ergonomically correct handles and not bad looking, at least in my opinion.

Can you still make an ergonomically sound handle this way? Of course. I very much doubt anyone would dispute that. Does the maker have more options to realize his concept of superior ergonomics when shaping wood? You bet he does. And the benefits are by no means restricted to the surely uncommon circumstance of shaping a handle to an actual mold of the client's hand (a practice in respect of which, I will confess, I am quite unfamiliar).

Yes, very uncommon. That was my point.

It would be possible to render any of the handle designs you have shown in wood or synthetic? You bet. You wouldn't have the natural stag texture, but texturing wood or synthetic is not exactly hard. It would be pretty much not an option, however, to render any of the handle designs below in stag. Which is rather the point.

Depends on what type of wood texturing you are referring too as to how hard and at what expense. From experience I can tell you, a good popcorn or deep bark stag handle is hard to beat in a field dressing situation.

I'm not against stag. It is probably my single favourite handle material, period. But it does present limitations from a design standpoint.

Roger

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[Bladeandbarrel]

Here we go!

 

[RogerP]

I'm not disputing that wood and synthetics are easier to shape, I just don't agree with your point above. Mortised stag or stag carvers can be shaped into ergonomically correct and beautiful handles. They are very common in that makers do it every day. By the way "too much" isn't terribly precise either.

Okay, then allow me to be more precise: you can't much alter the textured surface area of the stag without detracting from its beauty. The textured surface area of the stag, is pretty much most of the stag. Therefore, you can't alter it "too much". Follow?

And I don't know why you feel to repeatedly refute an argument that has not been made - by me, or anyone else. Yes, ergonomically correct handles can be made from stag. Hardly a revelation and not in dispute.

And just to be clear - it's not that wood and synthetics are easier to shape, it's that they provide tha maker with a much wider range of design options for the handle on a using knife. There is no limitation as to shape and dimension arising from the material itself. I don't know how to make it any clearer than that.

I'd say handle ergonomics (comfort, retention, leverage, indexing) are of utmost importance in a competition cutting knife. I have seen precious few of those crafted from stag.

I get the feeling that it would be pointless for me to say more on the subject, so I won't.

Roger

 

[Kevin Jones]

Okay, then allow me to be more precise: you can't much alter the textured surface area of the stag without detracting from its beauty. The textured surface area of the stag, is pretty much most of the stag. Therefore, you can't alter it "too much". Follow?

No, don't follow. I prefer a combination of both bark and smooth. IMO, all or too much bark (textured) leaves the stag dull and un-appealing. The contrast between the two and the higher polish of the smooth does it for me. May be wrong, but I expect most prefer varying degree of both.

And I don't know why you feel to repeatedly refute an argument that has not been made - by me, or anyone else. Yes, ergonomically correct handles can be made from stag. Hardly a revelation and not in dispute.

I gave an opinion is all. At least some beautiful knives were posted by us both.:thumbup:

I'd say handle ergonomics (comfort, retention, leverage, indexing) are of utmost importance in a competition cutting knife. I have seen precious few of those crafted from stag.

Don't know, as I don't follow comp. cutters that much. Do follow hunter/skinners though.

I get the feeling that it would be pointless for me to say more on the subject, so I won't.

Perhaps, but I doubt it.

Roger

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[B . Buxton]

I think it depends on ones definition of a user. I know many people have a lot different opinions then mine, but I'm on the water or in the woods at some part of the day, probably 150 days a year. My personal hardcore hunting knives have micarta on them, now working with the stuff isn't my favorite, matter of fact, as a maker I really don't like grinding the stuff. But my experience from cleaning fish to being elbow deep in a bloody ribcage, linen and canvas micartas are hard to beat. It is more comfortable and easier to hang onto after several hours of sitting in below freezing temps and the grip is great no matter if its covered with blood or pouring down rain. Now as far as being pretty, it doesn't hold a candle to stag or many woods which perform pretty good too. BUT for a down and dirty hard core hunter in all hunting and fishing conditions - micarta or G-10 is good stuff. Just my opinion.

Bill

 

[Paul Savage]

For me it is curly maple with that patina'd old timey flavour to it hands down. Gotta admit mammoth and stag are way up there too , but on my user its the maple. And if the blade gets a patina going it makes it that much better. Nothing like dressing out a deer with a well loved knife.

 

[peterinct]

I prefer the synthetics also on user knives. Micarta and G10 are tough to beat for durability and consistency.

Stag is nice on many knives but again if used heavily, not as good as the synthetics. I would say I like stag more for looks than performance, but I like it on the most types of knives than any other material.

On high end gents type knives pearl is tough to beat for looks. I like many types of stone, all the woods Roger mentioned and many more. Some of the burls are exceptional looking.

I do like bone except when died unnatural bright colors. Some of the jigged bone like found on vintage slipjoints is cool too.

Roger and Kevin - thanks for the pictures. You both posted some fine knives.

Peter

 

[CarpScot]

I prefer either a high quality micarta or stabilized wood on users.

I will also go for jigged and dyed cow bone if it is a particularily nice piece.

Stag is something that I avoid, as I really dislike the feel of it in hand when in use.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I think it depends on ones definition of a user. I know many people have a lot different opinions then mine, but I'm on the water or in the woods at some part of the day, probably 150 days a year. My personal hardcore hunting knives have micarta on them, now working with the stuff isn't my favorite, matter of fact, as a maker I really don't like grinding the stuff. But my experience from cleaning fish to being elbow deep in a bloody ribcage, linen and canvas micartas are hard to beat. It is more comfortable and easier to hang onto after several hours of sitting in below freezing temps and the grip is great no matter if its covered with blood or pouring down rain. Now as far as being pretty, it doesn't hold a candle to stag or many woods which perform pretty good too. BUT for a down and dirty hard core hunter in all hunting and fishing conditions - micarta or G-10 is good stuff. Just my opinion.

Bill

I agree Bill.
I detest micarta and G10, yet for some applications there's no denying it just makes sense.

Roger, it's ironic that in wiping down my knives tonight I discovered an example which supports your point of view. I can't imagine the exceptional ergonomics of this Craig Camerer fighter could be achieved with a typical stag carver and still leave a handle pleasing to the eye.

 

[henkyjenky]

On slippies I've been diggin Ivory linen micarta.

 

[cdent]

Hi Kevin J, great lineup of stag handled knives. Do you mind if I ask if those are all considered using knives by you. No big deal, some of those look like they might be categorized as higher end collectables.

I'd go stabilized wood with carefully selected grain or distant second black micarta. Colored synthetics aren't too interesting to me.

Take care, Craig

 

[Kevin Jones]

Hi Kevin J, great lineup of stag handled knives. Do you mind if I ask if those are all considered using knives by you. No big deal, some of those look like they might be categorized as higher end collectables.

I'd go stabilized wood with carefully selected grain or distant second black micarta. Colored synthetics aren't too interesting to me.

Take care, Craig

Hi Craig.
Users in that they are Hunters and certainly up to the tasks if someone chose to us them.
I own two of them (below), however since these specific hunters are embellished and collectible/investment grade versions of Jerry Fisk’s Gamemaster and Sendero models I would not personally use them. However, if I did still hunt and field dress large game on occasion as in the past, I would find it very difficult not to use my Gamemaster as it’s the most comfortable and ergonomically correct hunting knife I have ever handled.

I chose the examples as photos were readily available. Could have found photos of field grade versions of these designs that are frequently used by hunters.
Not sure how familiar you are with hunters, so I will add that Jerry Fisk’s Sendero model is one of the most recognized and copied hunter designs in existence. I find it to be an excellent all around hunter. The Gamemaster is well suited for skinning large game as the handle design allows good leverage to apply maximum power to the blade for cutting bone and tissue.

Fisk Sendero:

Fisk Gamemaster:

 

[Snody]

What an Awesome Knife... Outstanding...

 

[Lycosa]

It Truly is!!

 

[cdent]

Thanks much for the reply Kevin. I wasn't wondering so much about the model or design of the knives which are likely excellent for the job. It's moreso the material selection, application of embellishments and execution that might keep some of those examples out of the woods.

Anyway, thanks again, Craig