Handle modifications for extreme conditions

C

Cliff Stamp

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After having some slips on the grips of my khukuris I set out to do a more complete evaluation of the blades awhile ago. Basically what I wanted to determine was the security of the grips when my hand was fatigued. If I am at 100% I have never had a problem, but that is not always going to be the case.

Anyway what I did was take a knife that was not overly comfortable and chop with it for about a half an hour. I was using a high enough effort (beyond what was necessary) to both induce fatigue and irritation of my palm. When I was no longer able to have the control I desired and my hand became irritated enough I switched to the khukuri (18" Anh Khola).

As I figured it was very difficult to chop with the khukuri as I could not maintain a tight grip because of the fatigue and discomfort. Raising my level to about the maximum the khukuri finally started to slip and I took a neat slice out of my index finger. Basically a circular patch of skin about 1 layer deep as removed.

To remedy this situation I wrapped the bottom and top of the grip with high friction guard tape from Lee Valley. I also wrapped the first few inches of the blade. I then repeated the above work. This time all that happened was that my grip would slip onto the tape and would go no further. The tape is extremely abrasive and quickly irritated my skin but it was impossible to have my hand slip up on the blade.

One other advantge to wrapping the top of the grip in this manner is that the khukuri becomes much more securely fit to the sheath.


-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 23 November 1999).]
 
Another option might be to use tennis raquet wrap to wrap the handle. It isn't real pretty, but it is easy to remove should you need to but stays on quite reliably in the field. It's pretty comfortable too. Cost runs about $3-6 and each roll is enough for 3 raquets or Khukris.
 
In general I have never found tape wrapping a handle for security to work. Basically if the handle is not secure enough without the tape, the tape needs to be very abrasive for the handle to be secure with it. That high a level of abrasion usually prevents heavy work. I don't like gloves much either. Primarily because the glove allows the khukuri to move upon impact and I like to keep control of it. High friction tape + gloves would be a very secure and comfortable combination though.

-Cliff
 
When fatigue reaches the point where grip or coordination begin to suffer, it is often best not to work with a khukuri. There may be situations when working while fatigued is the appropriate course of action, but the probability of injury increases dramatically. Besides taping the handle, it may be appropriate to consider ways to strengthen the hand and arm so they do not fatigue so readily, and ways to fractionate the tasks so the body has rest periods.

------------------
Howard Wallace
Khukuri FAQ

 
Howard, I have discussed chopping techniques on this forum and on others to both maximize power and minimize fatigue. Just recently I posted on Ron Hood's forum to clear up some misconceptions about the ergonomics of traditional khukuri handles (not being suitable for heavy chopping as they roll and cause blisters).

Concerning physical ability, I rarely discuss this online, but since the point was raised, my grip and forearm strength is relatively high. Specific to fatigue/injury and khukuris. I have never generated a blister with a khukuri and the fatigue rate is too low for it to be a problem. As noted in the above to induce a state where the grip became unsecure I had to use a blade that was not well suited to what I was doing. If I had used the AK I would never had any problems. And yes, on a regular basis I train my grip for retention and strength as well extended chopping to increase stamina.

However the simple fact is that I have had on occasion needed to work when I was very tired or injured. While you should obviously try to avoid this if at all possible, some times you cannot. In this light I have developed techniques to overcome various problems (no thumb grip etc. for example). From time to time I email Bill with these and other notes, he keeps suggesting that I post most of it. And yes, a lot of these are very dangerous even if you know what you are doing.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 24 November 1999).]
 
Cliff,

I am one of those guys who never squeezes the heck out of stuff when they hold on to something to use it. I use to play a lot of tennis and I had a tendancy to use a loose grip a lot of times - for me it gave me better touch on shots: firm, but not choking tight. I use a similar grip with the khukuri's, and YES - I find my hand sliding forward at times (man I wish there was a forward stop/guard....LOL). I try to use the weight of the khukuri do the work, instead of my arm, or shoulder. The big endcap (which Is alwasy digging into my side of my hand BTW) stops the knife from flying out of my grip.

I am not in the kind of condition that I should be (lack of time and family responcibilites like a lot of us have), so I try not to over do it.

I tried making a couple of different cherry wood handles with some non-conventional shapes (you can follow the links to that in the GH pics, if you haven't taken a peek). The first one was like a modified axe handle on a WW, which was ok, but I am prone to sliding down on the handle the MOST with this shape. The 2nd one was my attempt at an ergonomic one where my natural hand postion rest - unfortunately I mounted this one on a light weight SN1. I should have torn apart the WW and tried out a new handle.

I usually try to leave the standard designs alone since I thought that thru the many years of the khukuri's existance that time would have produced the best handle shape for hard use.

To make a long story short, I my first khukuri was a WW with no handle - at the time I was low on $, since we were on one income and I couldn't afford to spend frivelous money on toys.

Has anyone else messed around with some handle shapes that they thought were better than the standard ones? I would love to hear about them.

Ray 'md2020'


 
Ray, I often take down the diameter of the handle behind the rings to make a larger disparity between where I hold with the pinkie and ring fingers, and in front of the rings. This lets me clamp down with those fingers and tighten the forefinger and index as I snap the thing.

I also find the Chainpuri ( no butt cap, just a diamond shaped keeper to hold the tang on ) shaped handle easier to work with and not get stabbed by the corners of the butt.

------------------
' ... and on the 8th day God said, " You take over, Murphy..." '.


 
Ray, concerning chopping and grip retention. I have never had a problem with security except in extreme conditions. I tried to chop with my hand covered in mineral oil - didn't work well, however I can't think of how anything close to this could actually happen in the field. In regards to actual work I have never had a problem. However my chopping style is significantly difference from yours.

For heavy chopping I maintain a tight grip on the handle and basically use a
locked wrist and with very little movement in my elbow, swing with the blade at head level rotating my hip and powering into it with my back. I will also raise slightly off the ground with my right leg at the start of the stroke with my weight on my left leg and thus really power into the stroke. My grip is very firm on the khukuri through the entire stroke including while powering it into the wood.

It is essential that your grip be strong enough to maintain your hold on the khukuri even during impact if you use this method. If it is not the blade could very likely glance on impact and your body will offer no significant resistance to it. I should note that this is basically derived from Bando chopping methods described long ago on this form modified to use a power base from heavy axe work.

In regards to alternate handle shapes, after working with the MD TUSK I was very curious to know how that shape would work on a khukuri. MD however was not inclined to help me out on that though so it never went anywhere. I have a project in the works with someone who could do such an alteration though so I might try it out early next year.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 25 November 1999).]
 
Has anyone tried kevlar work gloves with rubber bumps attatched?

I don't like wearing gloves when using my khukuri's. Sometimes I end up chopping with my hand rather than the blade. Thats when I wish I wore the gloves.

Will
 
Ray, I, too, am interested in various handle shapes. My problem is that I'm missing my little finger (sawed it off, then had to fight a Doberman for it, thinking that it might be able to be reattached -- but that's another story). Anyway, I've found that to maximize the strength of my grip it helps to have oversized handles on everything, from tennis rackets to hammers -- I've experimented with wrapping my AK's handle with tennis racket grip-covering to increase the diameter of the handle and it seems to help a great deal when doing serious chopping. I'm considering talking to Uncle Bill about special ordering an 18" chopper with a larger-than-average grip.



[This message has been edited by Steven F (edited 26 November 1999).]
 
It has been long time since I really handle blades for chopping trees & cutting grass. I recalled that either chopping trees or cutting grass needs combination of strength utilization + technique + suitable blade + suitable handle + time.

I think the most popular handle shape that normally we used for blades is the head of the bird shape. The back of the head feels confortable in our palm and the beak become some sort of the lock from slipping away from our hand.

Khukuri handle is a different type by itself - my current experience teach me that I should place the handle in my palm in such away that it move from side to side of my palm without the pointing part digg into any part of my palm. Wow ... very difficult to explain with my limited English vocabs!
 
Steven, let me dig thru the 10,000 pix file and see if I can find a handle that might be of interest to you -- and perhaps others.

It is quite unconventional in that it is oversized and has finger grips carved into the handle.

------------------
Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ

 
I appreciate your thoughtfulness, Uncle Bill. Your good and kind spirit is part of what makes this forum so very special.
 
Steven F.,

I could see missing a pinky a slight problem with hanging on to things. So do you find the standard handles twisting on you a lot?
Would a fatter bottom/wider base with a larger endcap be of benefit to you, or no? You can always built up the back part with a moldable clay like epoxy once you find out what shape you like. Some target pistol shooters use to use plastic wood and smush it on to a grip to help them with a better target grip (guys with a LOT of $, can take the ugly mess to some one and get a hand carved made) You can cast a mold off of one you like and use it to make other back sections. If you can come up with a shape, I can help you reproduce them. If you want i can send you my SN1 with the 'ergo' grip for you to try out (you can built up the back with some tennis tape).

Ray 'md2020'
 
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