Handle Stabilizing Liquid Suggestions?

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Sep 19, 2008
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I want to stabilize some handle material I have and would like to ask what y'all use? Have tried Nelsonite but didn't like the smell. Looking for something that works and is available at a reasonable price. Who stabilizes and what do you use and why?

Pat
 
As you can tell this is not a popular subject, I have tried to stabilize my own wood with very limited results. The most available stabilizer used is minwax wood stablizer, availabe at most stores. I would like to suggest you try to send out a few pieces and see the results of professioal stabilization, for me there is a really big difference. The cost is not very much, I think mine comes out to be 5-6$ per knife.
 
It will come out costing less and a better end product if you have the wood professionally stabilized.
The 2 most popular stabilizing companies are K&G and WSSI.
You pay by the finished weight of the handle material. Cost ranges $10 to under $15 per pound depending on how large of batch you have done.
Make sure your wood you send in is good and dry.
 
If you're thinking of using the Minwax Wood Hardener, you might as well save the money and melt candle wax on your handle. The end result will be about the same. :D
 
My point is that I tried Minwax... it isn't really a wood stabilization product. They call it a "wood hardener", and it doesn't really even do that. The purpose of that product is to get into the pores of rotting wood and stop it from rotting any further. It doesn't get very deep into the wood... unless the wood is infused with termite holes. It just ain't the same as stabilization, which is a process that involves heat, vacuum, pressure and secret sauces mere mortals can't buy and use properly. So if you're thinking of doing your own stabilization, be prepared for disappointment.
 
I have not used it but a friend has been using a new product called Cactus Juice (No joke ,
google it !) & has been well pleased with it . It is nontoxic, with minimum odor & seems to penetreate through & thrrough . It requires a vacuum system & 2 hrs of baking @ 200 degrees afterward. I have examined some of the wood & it looks excellent . No one but the proprietor knows the actual ingredient & it is pricy @ around $100/gal. I'm still going to let the big boys do mine though but it is interesting .

Joe
 
Thanks all. Forgot about this thread. Looked into some of the suggestions I received. Industrial stuff that should work well as per manufacturer, but you have to buy 5 gallons at around $60/gl.

Joe I have heard of Cactus Juice because I make some pens too. Can't believe it's $100/gl. Guess that's why I was asking around.

Planning on sending my stuff out. Sometimes you just can't fight it. I try to do every part myself. Just doesn't always work out that way.
 
I'll elaborate on Mark's comments ( Burl Source)-

Mark runs a big wood place. They handle tons of wood.....many, many tons. Cost of stabilizing is a factor in profit, so Mark decided to stabilize his own handle wood. He did his research, cut no corners and built top grade equipment, purchased chemicals that make the cost of Parks #50 look as cheap as bottled water, and did his own stabilizing. After a while, he tore it all down and now sends it to the pros......Why???? Because they do a better job, cheaper than he can, even in bulk.

Now, take a hobby person like most of us, with a mason jar and some off the hardware store shelf products and decide if that has any chance of ever comparing to the work done by WSSI or K&G. Mike at WSSI and Ken at K&G are real pros and will do it far better than you can. The big gain is in time and quality for you. It is also going to be cheaper in the long run.
Additionally, a knife with a home stabilized handle will likely be worth less than one with a handle from these sources.
The cost of stabilizing the handle wood is part of the cost of making a quality knife, and worth every penny.
Just like good steel, proper HT, and doing quality workmanship, the handle wood should be top class,too.

Stabilizing Tips:
Choose good quality solid wood and trim away anything that you don't want stabilized ( you pay by the pound).
Dry it well for at least six months. If the moisture content is above 10% (7% is better), it will warp and crack durring stabilization. Thois is your problem, not theirs. You will pay for the wood either way, so make sure it is dry. They will check it when it comes in, and dry it a while if needed, but the loss is yours - So Make Suer It Is Dry!
Send a batch to one of the pros and you will get the lowest rate. Ten pounds and up is usually the best amount.
Check with the stabilizer as to wood types and dying if you have questions - they glad to help you.
Consider stabilizing larger blocks. WSSI does huge blocks, and K&G does fairly good size blocks. You can stabilize some woods better as a larger block, and cut for that as needed to get the best yield.
Don't wait until you need the wood back in a week to send it out. While the turn around time is usually quick, they do get backed up, and it can take a few weeks.
Consider dying woods that have a nice pattern, like quilted and curly maple. The wood may only look so-so as a light tan, but will look stunning as black, brown, green, etc.
Double dying is more expensive and only done on a few wood types ( Buckeye Burl and Box elder Burl, IIRC). It is best left alone until you have more experience with the wood types and dying results.
You pay by the finished pound, so very heavy woods are going to be more expensive. Ten blocks of buckeye burl may weigh less than five blocks of walnut, but you will pay the same for the final fees.
 
All this info is very true. I havent worked with stabilized wood but I have drooled all over my computer looking at it online :) My dad and I got some really nice spalted maple burl from an old farm yard but alot of it is a bit punky so I am going to have to get it stabilized. Not saying I might not try a few scraps myself but I will definatly get some done by the big guys.
 
I spent a long time researching stabilizing wood with limited success. I finally found a "juice" that I was willing to spend the $100/gal on and ordered some. I built myself a vacuum/pressure vessel (I'm a welder) and was ready to give stabilizing a try. I made sure my wood was dry -10% and put the wood in the vessel and then filled the vessel with the "juice". I pulled vacuum for 2 weeks and then put 120 psi into the vessel for 2 weeks. I then took the wood out and wrapped every piece of wood with tin foil as tight as I could and then cooked the wood for 1/2 hour at 215 f for 1 hour. The heat is what kicks the cataylyst in and hardens the "juice" which the blocks are completely saturated in.
I took some of this wood to a hammer in and gave out blocks to everyone to take home and use and let me know their results. I never had 1 complaint and most people really liked it because it never had the plastic smell or strong chemical smell. I continued to use this product and have had great results.
I started having people from all over North America sending me wood to be stabilized. It started to be a full time job to get their wood stabilized and sent back. I never intended to do this commercially so I quit stabilizing others wood. I do stabilize a lot of my own wood and sell it at gun/knife shows.
This can be done at home but it is very expensive and time consuming to do.
Jim
 
Boatbuilder, message sent to visitors messages.

I am an industrial pipe fitter and welder by trade and am interested in your equipment and process. Retirement and time coming soon.
 
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While I'm in agreement with WSSI, and K&G being the best theres all kinds of stuff out
there you can use on a small scale. I've done many tests hanging on a clothesline for
months and even under water. This was done with Minwax, heat, and vac. The cost and
time becomes a big factor to do it on a large scale.
Ken.
102_0639.jpg
 
I spent a long time researching stabilizing wood with limited success. I finally found a "juice" that I was willing to spend the $100/gal on and ordered some. I built myself a vacuum/pressure vessel (I'm a welder) and was ready to give stabilizing a try. I made sure my wood was dry -10% and put the wood in the vessel and then filled the vessel with the "juice". I pulled vacuum for 2 weeks and then put 120 psi into the vessel for 2 weeks. I then took the wood out and wrapped every piece of wood with tin foil as tight as I could and then cooked the wood for 1/2 hour at 215 f for 1 hour. The heat is what kicks the cataylyst in and hardens the "juice" which the blocks are completely saturated in.
I took some of this wood to a hammer in and gave out blocks to everyone to take home and use and let me know their results. I never had 1 complaint and most people really liked it because it never had the plastic smell or strong chemical smell. I continued to use this product and have had great results.
I started having people from all over North America sending me wood to be stabilized. It started to be a full time job to get their wood stabilized and sent back. I never intended to do this commercially so I quit stabilizing others wood. I do stabilize a lot of my own wood and sell it at gun/knife shows.
This can be done at home but it is very expensive and time consuming to do.
Jim

This "juice" Your talking about isnt misquite mans cactus juice is it? I have read alot of good things about the cactus juice. I was going to give it a shot but the shipping is making me think twice. The past few months have been spent reading about home stabilizing and such. I have a vacuum pump and vac/pressure chamber for dyeing wood and bone so I fugured what the heck I would give it a shot. I have tried many recipies with less then poor results. From what I have researched the minwax wood hardener is only around 20% solids or so so thats a big reason why it doesnt work so well. I have some really thin polyester resin that works alright on really punky wood but on anything semi solid it does not penitrate. I have tried epoxies as well. Any resins like this simply dont give you the work time needed to get full penitration. I have tried the plexitone "soup" and again just like the minwax wood hardener there are very little solids left over when the acetone is gone. So I am in the process of using the plexitone once again but this time I am taking a different aproach to it. I pulled acuum for 3 hours then pressure for 3 hours and repeated that for one more cycle just like I did the first time I used plexitone. The only thing I am doing different this time is I am letting the acetone evaporate out of the open can with the wood still submerged in the soup. A few times I day I will top up the can with some more fairly pure soup. So far I have turned half a galon into about one pint of soup with the wood still in the mix. I'm hoping that this will allow more solids to stay inside the wood. Time will tell because its still not finished. Is what I'm doing worth it? Nope, not at all. Even it it works 100% wich will not happen. It still has cost me lots for acetone, plexi and TIME sooo much time has gone into a preject destined to dissapoint me. You know what tho? Its a good learining experiance and without trying nobody on earth would have anything. Its people that are willing to put in the time and think outside the box that come up with new ways to do things. Just my 2 cents. Now if I could get my hands on some acrylic monomers that would be a different story! I have been talking to some of the plastic shops and i'm trying to locate some heat set acrylic resin. I know in the end its all going to cost me a ton of money and a lot of time but its fun.
 
Just a couple thoughts to add to the discussion.

Minwax wood hardener has some killer fumes (literally). When you breath them you get dizzy and see stars.
If you like sniffing glue to get high, I guess it is OK.

Getting handle materials done by one of the bigger name pros adds value to the finished product.
In addition to insuring the durability of the handle material.

Chemicals cost a lot.
Different woods need to be treated differently to get good results.
It is a messy time consuming job.
 
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