HAP 40 Delica and Endura

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I was the guy that asked Sal for a follow up to the Superblue Sprints on the Spyderco forums. My only lament is that it is again clad and not a solid piece. I would have paid the difference for it to not be clad. I will still probably get an E4 but will always pine for the same model in solid HAP 40
 
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Well, I, for one, am excited about the Delica. When I saw this I cancelled my order of other knives to wait on this.
 
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I was the guy that asked Sal for a follow up to the Superblue Sprints on the Spyderco forums. My only lament is that it is again clad and not a solid piece. I would have paid the difference for it to not be clad. I will still probably get an E4 but will always pine for the same model in solid HAP 40

Why? The San Mai III construction will make rust less of a concern. Claims about it being semi-stainless appear to be wrong; 'semi-stainless' isn't a real designation, but D2 is usually described as such with 12% Chromium (Stainless = >13% Cr). At less than 5% Chromium, it's probably close to CPM M4. It does have relatively high levels of Molybdenum with 5.4%, and that helps with corrosion resistance, but IDK... the cladding seems like a premium feature to me, not a cost-saver.
 
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Why? The San Mai III construction will make rust less of a concern. Claims about it being semi-stainless appear to be wrong; 'semi-stainless' isn't a real designation, but D2 is usually described as such with 12% Chromium (Stainless = >13% Cr). At less than 5% Chromium, it's probably close to CPM M4. It does have relatively high levels of Molybdenum with 5.4%, and that helps with corrosion resistance, but IDK... the cladding seems like a premium feature to me, not a cost-saver.
No more rust prone than Superblue which was offered in solid blades in both the Caly 3 and 3.5 but clad in the FRN line. My SB E4 made me realize that it is a very thin piece of SB between the clad. That and the SB clads were quite bendy compared to the more rigid SB Caly 3 and 3.5. And patina is just cool
 
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No more rust prone than Superblue which was offered in solid blades in both the Caly 3 and 3.5 but clad in the FRN line. My SB E4 made me realize that it is a very thin piece of SB between the clad. That and the SB clads were quite bendy compared to the more rigid SB Caly 3 and 3.5. And patina is just cool

Okay, I was wondering if the patina might be a part of it. That's cool. I'm not as into it myself, but I can see the appeal. The ZDP-189 Caly 3.5 in CF also used a San Mai III construction, and the cladding seemed very thin. Almost like a sacrificial or galvanic layer, but of course, corrosion resistant in 420J2. I was confused why a steel that has 20% chromium would need it.

I assumed it was being used for the same reason Japanese swordsmiths invented the San Mai construction: to allow the ZDP core to be heated for maximum Rockwell levels of 67, which would give it superior edge retention; and wrapping this ZDP-core to provide reinforcement for the spine with a softer, more flexible steel, alleviating concerns about brittleness that a 67Rhc can raise.

I later heard a reviewer on Amazon comment that the SM3 was there to protect the ZDP from corrosion. I disagreed, mentioning that protecting a 20% Chromium stainless steel (ZDP-189) by using a 14% Chromium stainless steel (420J2) didn't make sense. I had to eat crow later when researching the issue; I found a BF thread in which Sal Glesser himself confirmed that ZDP-189 is one of their worst performers, as far as SS goes. The 3% carbon counters the resistance prov. by the Chromium.

So the fact that the clad blades of SuperBlue were more flexible is a good thing; you get toughness and flexibility where it counts - the spine - and rigidity where it counts - the cutting edge. The unclad Caly Superblues would probably have a lower Rhc than the Endura SB, slightly less edge retention, and an increased chance of breaking a tip off. Hypothetically speaking, that is. Alloys are very complicated and confounding, and the way elements react to one another is unpredictable, at least to me.
 
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Just for the sake of littering this fine thread with more graphs, here's a group photo featuring HAP 40 with friends and family... maybe distant cousins.

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Dec 20, 2013
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It was mentioned somewhere that, like Super Blue, HAP40 will eventually make its way into the entire FRN lineup. Personally, I'm excited for a Dragonfly2, especially given the composition charts that have been posted so far.
 
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Soooo... any chance this HAP40 might work it's way into a PE Lil Matriarch blade?? Surfingringo brought that up elsewhere & I'd definitely jump on that boat ride! :)
 
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Jun 29, 2011
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The closest I can find to HAP40, that I'm familiar with, is M36 & M35. This is a definite :thumbup:
I have several blades in M35.
Being a sucker for HSS, and in Delica form, I'll overlook the bright orange handle. :D

Thanks for this chart... When I do a google search for m35 I see it is often used for circular saw blades. The impression I get is that it is similar to M2 but with additional cobalt. One of the effects of the high cobalt is to improve the red-hot hardness, which is not directly useful for knife blades, unless you take into account power sharpening at the factory.

Some more info here:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_steel

A few comments by Jerry Hossom here:
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14281

My gut feel is that it will be very similar in performance to M4 for our uses.
 
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Thanks for this chart... When I do a google search for m35 I see it is often used for circular saw blades. The impression I get is that it is similar to M2 but with additional cobalt. One of the effects of the high cobalt is to improve the red-hot hardness, which is not directly useful for knife blades, unless you take into account power sharpening at the factory.
I've read that in addition to increasing red hardness and attainable hardness, cobalt intensifies the individual effects of other elements in the steel (molybdenium, tungsten, vandium, etc). I like to think of M35, as M2 on steroids.
A few comments by Jerry Hossom here:
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14281
My gut feel is that it will be very similar in performance to M4 for our uses.
You're probably right that 99% of knife users will never know the difference, but...
On paper, M4 is supposed to outperform M2 in every way. In practice, I haven't found that to be the case. I can tell you that my M35's outperform my M2's in every way.

I'm sure the poster in that thread is refering to parting tools, the same type I ground my own blades from, both 5 and 10% cobalt ones.

Mr. Hossom is correct in his assessment of working with it. As an example, M35 is much harder to grind than M2, and M2 ain't easy. I suspect this is one reason M2 is no longer used, and no one wants to work with it.

I'm excited about a HSS-Co M35 class folder, I hope the HT is right.
 
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I have some experience with m4, so I'll just have to order a Hap40 and write it down against 'education' :)
 
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May 20, 2007
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I have a small petty made of HAP40. I have sharpened it only once in a year and it gets used often. With a little common sense knife care it has only discolored a bit. I will get an endura when it comes out. Russ
 
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