• The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
    Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
    Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.

  • Today marks the 24th anniversary of 9/11. I pray that this nation does not forget the loss of lives from this horrible event. Yesterday conservative commentator Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I worry about what is to come. Please love one another and your family in these trying times - Spark

Happy 8th birthday CPK sub-forum :)

Congratulations Nathan, Jo and Mark. It’s been a wild ride with a lot of regrets on not finding the funds to purchase everything the crew produces, but everything that I have been able to obtain is excellent. I’ve always been amazed that your product is machined🤔. Please remember that you said there might be a folder in the future, hopefully not to far in the future as 70 is getting close🙁😉
 
woodysone said:
Congratulations Nathan, Jo and Mark. It’s been a wild ride with a lot of regrets on not finding the funds to purchase everything the crew produces, but everything that I have been able to obtain is excellent. I’ve always been amazed that your product is machined🤔. Please remember that you said there might be a folder in the future, hopefully not to far in the future as 70 is getting close🙁😉
Click to expand...

Yeah Martin, that folder is like a speed hump. I have to slow down in order to get to the other side of it. But it's in my path and I have to go over it. I am very much looking forward to having a folder.

I am not very much looking forward to the development process because this is a design and manufacturing challenge that we have not done before and my expectations and you guys's expectations for the finished product is going to be quite a bit different than a person's expectations for some other folding knives. It has to work. And the details have to be right. And the technicals are new to me.

Anybody can make a "durable" folder by using thick dimensions. But, as you know, our definition of durable is a little bit different than a maker who is focusing on making something unbreakable. Unbreakable is easy. When we talk about durability here, we're talking about the ability to tolerate rough use without taking on damage. And even some of those ultra durable heavy duty folders have some weak spots and will degrade if subjected to rough use regularly. I'm trying to produce a knife that works with precision and that precision does not degrade due to abuse. This is a level of engineering beyond most knife makers and an area where I am expecting to find some challenges.

There's a lot of moving parts. Literally and figuratively. Moving a detent hole a few thousandths of an inch or changing a chamfer depth a few thousandth of an inch can have a significant effect on how a flipper fires, how well the blade stays closed in the pocket, and how the mechanism ages. So there are details like the size and location of the detent ball and the detent hole on the blade that have to interact correctly with the stop pin and lock face that will probably need some experimentation for me to dial in the perfect setup. Which means I'm going to need to have multiple machines set up and multiple operations so that we can make all of the operations of all of the parts at the same time and produce exactly one to evaluate it. And then another one. And another one. Until we divine the ideal set of parameters for all of the components. And the whole shop probably a month just to make the fixtures and write the programs and do the setups to get this whole thing set up and then we will make one knife and test it and then another and another until we have something ready to send down to you guys for you folks to beat on.
 
What is the best lock face angle. What is the best lock bar length. You can find something that works. But to actually know the answer you have to find something that doesn't work on both sides of something that does work so that you understand the optimal parameters.

And something might work perfectly new but fail once it wears. I'm expecting to learn a lot about folders in this process.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
What is the best lock face angle. What is the best lock bar length. You can find something that works. But to actually know the answer you have to find something that doesn't work on both sides of something that does work so that you understand the optimal parameters.

And something might work perfectly new but fail once it wears. I'm expecting to learn a lot about folders in this process.
Click to expand...
Are you sure a framelock can even meet those parameters? It seems like the lockup starts to slide over fairly quickly with hard use. Maybe you should consider a compression lock.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Yeah Martin, that folder is like a speed hump. I have to slow down in order to get to the other side of it. But it's in my path and I have to go over it. I am very much looking forward to having a folder.

I am not very much looking forward to the development process because this is a design and manufacturing challenge that we have not done before and my expectations and you guys's expectations for the finished product is going to be quite a bit different than a person's expectations for some other folding knives. It has to work. And the details have to be right. And the technicals are new to me.

Anybody can make a "durable" folder by using thick dimensions. But, as you know, our definition of durable is a little bit different than a maker who is focusing on making something unbreakable. Unbreakable is easy. When we talk about durability here, we're talking about the ability to tolerate rough use without taking on damage. And even some of those ultra durable heavy duty folders have some weak spots and will degrade if subjected to rough use regularly. I'm trying to produce a knife that works with precision and that precision does not degrade due to abuse. This is a level of engineering beyond most knife makers and an area where I am expecting to find some challenges.

There's a lot of moving parts. Literally and figuratively. Moving a detent hole a few thousandths of an inch or changing a chamfer depth a few thousandth of an inch can have a significant effect on how a flipper fires, how well the blade stays closed in the pocket, and how the mechanism ages. So there are details like the size and location of the detent ball and the detent hole on the blade that have to interact correctly with the stop pin and lock face that will probably need some experimentation for me to dial in the perfect setup. Which means I'm going to need to have multiple machines set up and multiple operations so that we can make all of the operations of all of the parts at the same time and produce exactly one to evaluate it. And then another one. And another one. Until we divine the ideal set of parameters for all of the components. And the whole shop probably a month just to make the fixtures and write the programs and do the setups to get this whole thing set up and then we will make one knife and test it and then another and another until we have something ready to send down to you guys for you folks to beat on.
Click to expand...
My money is on you.
If it was easy anyone could do it.
 
Synov said:
Are you sure a framelock can even meet those parameters? It seems like the lockup starts to slide over fairly quickly with hard use. Maybe you should consider a compression lock.
Click to expand...



The lock bar moves over due to many variables that have nothing to do with the actual lock face and wear. These variables include the setting in of the stop pin, movement between the two frame sides allowing that that pin to angle, the pivot taking a set, and wear between that pivot and the blade. Additionally, the high spots on those surfaces yield to each other, creating unwanted clearance.

If you break down most folders, you're going to find high spots and bell mouths that create a tight fit when new but yield into a looser assembly with rough use. In the design I'm proposing, the frame, lock pin, and pivot are all integral construction made from a single piece of hardened 3V steel. There is literally no room for movement between these components because they are formed from a single piece of hardened steel. The only room for 'wear' is literal wear, and that will be minimal with these materials.

I'm machining these components on high-precision, low-hour Mori Seiki machining centers that are illegal for export because they can be used to manufacture centrifuges capable of enriching uranium, unlike a Haas.



I'll use tooling and machining strategies that will reduce the kinds of flaws that cause significant movement from break-in and harder more durable and wear resistant material.

Most custom makers are using a drill press for this. It's not weird to me that their lockup moves when the assembly is abused.
 
I've decided not to make any more folding knives until I have a better machine for making holes. It's hard enough to dial in all the different elements on paper, but if my drill press is off, (it is) even reaming the holes is no guarantee they'll be exactly where they need to be.

can't wait to talk shop with you in October, my friend! I have so much to learn.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top