hard edge work with a BM-E

Discussion in 'Busse Combat Knives' started by Cliff Stamp, Aug 8, 2002.

  1. Cliff Stamp

    Cliff Stamp Banned BANNED

    Oct 5, 1998
    This blade belongs to Luke Freeouf, who post here as Lurkers. One of the things he was interested in was my impression of its edge durability.

    To have a look at the edge durability I first just chopped up a fair amount of wood, (about 1000 chops total, not all on the same day). This was fresh wood, fir, pine and spruce as well as seasoned drift wood, and various scrap lumber. Knots were cut through frequently. The edge was fully sharpened, using waterstones and a CrO loaded strop, several times to enable the detection of even minor rolling. No damage was induced on the edge during any of the chopping.

    The blade was then chopped into nails while they rested on a 4x4 pressure treated block. The nails would be driven into the wood from the force of the impacts, and cuts made up to about one quarter of the way through a three and a half inch common nail. The edge was not visibly damaged, just blunted. A 510 g ball pein hammer was then used to pound the knife into the various nails . Because the wood kept collapsing under the nail, the best that could be achieved was a cut about half way through the three and a half inch common nail. These various poundings (a half dozen) put small dents in the edge, from one to two mm wide, and the damaged region was up to 0.015" thick.

    Some harder chopping into more nails was performed later. This time on harder wood which was higher up off the floor so I could get more power behind the knife. The cuts into the nails were deeper, the damage induced was more bending, but less extensive than the hammer assisted cuts. I then did some nail chopping on concrete. Since this didn't give like the wood, the blade cut far deeper into the nails. I could get penetration up to half way through the three and a half inch common nail. I then used a four and a half pound beach rock to pound the knife through the nails. The larger nails took one to two hits to be cut completely through. The damage from this was less than the hammer pounding, and the concrete tended to just mash the edge down a little in the impact areas, just blunting.

    I then chopped into the head of the hammer. The knife made large cuts into the head, about one mm deep, and up to one cm long. This did no visible damage to the knife, just blunted it. I then found a piece of a concrete block that I had chopped up earlier and whacked that into little bits. These were hits heavy enough to break the concrete apart and send sparks flying. The rock contacts tended to mash the edge down, and you could see abrasion lines in the edge were the rocks had cut into the steel. A lot of impaction had taken place, but no direct fracturing. I then stabbed the tip into the pieces a half a dozen times breaking them up into smaller bits, some tip impaction, but nothing significant.

    The attached picture was taken at this time.

    Since the concrete didn't do any major damage I chopped into the beach rock a half a dozen times. This induced more impaction than the concrete, no surprise, it is a lot harder. I was hitting the rock hard enough to send it flying feet across the floor and producing visible sparks. The edge was impacted up to 0.035" across, the blade thickness was a little less than this behind the impacted region, about 0.025"-0.030". Again no fracture, you could clearly see the squashed steel. I then stabbed the tip into the rock, sending sparks flying and the rock shooting across the floor again. I did this a half a dozen times and it impacted the tip about one mm.

    I then held the knife out at arms length and examined it for damage. You could tell that the regions that had been whacked into the beach rock were a little impacted, but overall it didn't look that heavily used. I took a few shots, and could not tell from the pictures that it had changed significantly from before. Cheap camera though, no ability to do close ups. So I take the blade and put it at a forty five degree angle and then give the edge a whack with the hammer. Success. This bends a piece of the edge enough that the ductility is exceeded and it tears off. This removed a piece of the edge about three mm long and the blade was 0.030" thick behind the damaged region. This damage was visible at arms length.

    How was the cutting ability effected? After the concrete chopping the blade still had the ability to slice cardboard, chop wood, and slice various cords in the regions of heaviest damage. Though you could tell of course it was seriously blunted. After I whacked it into the beach rock there was no fine cutting ability left in those impact areas. You could still chop wood, but you were crushing it a lot, and the performance was seriously degraded. Of course there were lots of sharp areas left on the blade. Time to sharpen the blade on a small belt sander (1x30"), would be a couple of minutes, just a few passes per side would eliminate 90% of the damage, sharpening by hand, it would take less than half an hour.

    The edge on the BM-E was the standard Busse asymettric edge, wider on one edge than on the other (0.038 x 0.058 -> 18.1, 0.048 x 0.089 -> 15.1).

    -Cliff
     
  2. chiseen

    chiseen

    404
    Oct 25, 2000
    Cliff, you're coming no where near my BM! ;)

    That is some serious abuse. Glad someone took the time to test the steel. We know you are Jerry, but are you sure you're not also the Incredible Hulk? ;)
     
  3. Jerry Busse

    Jerry Busse Moderator Moderator

    Aug 20, 1999
    Gosh Darn it Cliff!!!! You did it again!!!! I have tears of joy streaming down my face. . . .

    Most knifemakers think of their blades as their children. They're overly protective, hopeful that they'll find good homes and be well taken care of, and very defensive if someone lays a hand on them.

    I, on the other hand, think I'm the only knifemaker out there who loves to see his "kids" shipped out to abusive homes, beaten, abused, and taken out to the woodshed on a continuous basis.;)

    Oh, I know that there are a lot of folks who lock their Busses up in safes. And that's probably a good idea, 'cause if you're not going to abuse them, they will most assuredly run away from home in search of an abusive relationship. You'll wake up someday and simply think that you've misplaced it. . . but it's actually a run-away whose picture will someday be plastered across the front of a Carling Can under the "Have you seen this Knife" poster.

    Yours in nuclear blade whoopin's,

    Jerry
     
  4. Dark Nemesis

    Dark Nemesis

    Mar 20, 1999
    Jerry, never drink and post....just give the keyboard to a friend ;)
     
  5. thatmguy

    thatmguy

    Mar 26, 2000
    I've been wondering if he tests his personal relationships the same way?? ;) ;)

    Man, he seems to go to the places we don't want to with ours, but are glad to know how they'll do if we had to....
     
  6. blademan 13

    blademan 13 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 25, 2000
    Who's crazier, Luke or Cliff? :eek:
     
  7. Eric Isaacson

    Eric Isaacson Pirate

    Dec 19, 1999
    Nails, concrete, and rocks.... I love these kind of reviews. These are exactly the types of materials that I encounter with incidental contacts when working with a big knife in the field.

    Thanks Cliff for the great info
     
  8. Andrew Lynch

    Andrew Lynch

    Feb 6, 2000
    Great testing Cliff! I've done some of the same testing myself, both intentionally and by accident ;)

    I too, even on full force swings into brick, for example (this was accidental), have seen only impaction and rolling. No chipping.

    I am looking forward to your comments on the E BM.
     
  9. idahoskunk

    idahoskunk Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 10, 2002
    my busse collection read this and all ran away screaming to the safe! a few minutes and lots of noise later they threw out a fellow BM-E then slammed the door behind him. they want him punished!!
     
  10. Cliff Stamp

    Cliff Stamp Banned BANNED

    Oct 5, 1998
    thatmguy :

    No, I am less reserved there.

    Andrew I just posted some comments on the E vs SH model in the reviews forum.


    -Cliff
     
  11. Bobby B

    Bobby B No more Mr. Knife-guy

    May 18, 2001
    LMAO:D
    Who taught them to read, was it you or Jerry???
     
  12. Lukers

    Lukers

    571
    Jul 17, 1999
    Cliff did a very thorough hard use test on my knife. It already had some high "mileage" on it before I sent it to him. I did many of the same tests myself but I wasn't sure how to interpret the results. I used it for a lot of digging, prying, chopping brush around rocks and things like that...hence the lack of coating on the part of the spine of the blade and the sides. When chopping around rocky soil or into stumps with pepples on them, the edge seemed to be flattened or blunted in spots. I realized it was a good thing that the blade deformed and didn't chip...but I just wanted a second opinion on what it meant...and who better than Cliff. It looks like Cliff got somemore coating off! I could have guessed that he was going to cut nails and rocks as I hoped he would do some really nasty things to it. I have chopped into metal like rail track and done edge to edge tests with my homemade knives. It caused some edge damage but again I wasn't sure how to conclude what the damage I saw meant in terms of edge holding and toughness. I will look foward to Cliff's review of my BA3 (I hope I didn't speak too soon on this one Cliff). :)
    Luke
     
  13. Evolute

    Evolute

    Mar 19, 2001
    Cliff,

    Informative results. Thanks.
     
  14. Cobalt

    Cobalt Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 23, 1998
    And here is Cliff doing 1000 chops with a BME and chopping nails with no edge damage.
    Another proof of Busse kin.
     
  15. lovemysteel

    lovemysteel

    23
    Jul 1, 2015
    Where can I get a BME and what does it look like?
     
  16. trukreltrog

    trukreltrog

    Oct 16, 2006
    BMe, old ergo battle mistress. Only place to find one is in the Busse exchange,,,

    [​IMG]
     
  17. lovemysteel

    lovemysteel

    23
    Jul 1, 2015
    Oh, I see. I must have this knife. I like looks of it if that is knife in picture. Do you want to sell yours? How much? I am new to this forum so I do not know where to shop.
     
  18. Cobalt

    Cobalt Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 23, 1998
    There is one on ebay right now. Not sure who the sellers is but I am guessing it is someone on the forum
     
  19. lovemysteel

    lovemysteel

    23
    Jul 1, 2015
    ok, I will look at ebay.
     
  20. Cobalt

    Cobalt Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 23, 1998
    let us know if you get it
     

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