Hard use kitchen knife failure has me scared of VG10.

C

Cajun93

Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
13
I've been out of the knife world but getting back.

I'm going 1095 Essie 4 for fixed, Tram and Condor (one heavy one lite) for large, Spyderco for small and medium folder. (2in and 3+in blade)

When looking for the type of blade for my potential spydies....I'm scared of VG10.

My wife and I are HARD on the kitchen knives. I have a low end Henckel, mid line Henckel and two Shuns.
They don't go into the DW but do sit in the bottom of sink for a day or two clanging on flatware and dishes and each other.

I've had the Henckels 10 years, shuns 5 years. The Shuns are chipped out beyond use at this time.
The Henckels have zero chips and sharpen up great (Apex Pro).

I don't plan on babying the folders. I'm scared of VG10. Should I be?
 
Cajun93 said:
I've been out of the knife world but getting back.

I'm going 1095 Essie 4 for fixed, Tram and Condor (one heavy one lite) for large, Spyderco for small and medium folder. (2in and 3+in blade)

When looking for the type of blade for my potential spydies....I'm scared of VG10.

My wife and I are HARD on the kitchen knives. I have a low end Henckel, mid line Henckel and two Shuns.
They don't go into the DW but do sit in the bottom of sink for a day or two clanging on flatware and dishes and each other.

I've had the Henckels 10 years, shuns 5 years. The Shuns are chipped out beyond use at this time.
The Henckels have zero chips and sharpen up great (Apex Pro).

I don't plan on babying the folders. I'm scared of VG10. Should I be?
Click to expand...

Being hard on a knife with super thin cutting geometry is pretty much always going to end in damage. Rest assured, Spyderco folders will never be ground as thinly as a kitchen knife so you should have much more edge stability. VG-10 doesn't have a reputation for excessive chipping.

edit: The Henckel probably only held up better because the steel is certainly much softer, which theoretically means it would roll instead of chip. That's a lot less noticeable when you go to sharpen it, which is why it's probably held up better over the years.
 
Henckels are ground thick and shuns aren't. You don't leave shuns in the sink or bang them on hard ceramic plates. I hope you don't leave 1095 wet for days.
 
IMO spyderco's vg10 is great ive never had the any problems with it like the ones you have had with the above mentioned knives.
 
Strengths and weaknesses...3 inch folder to take a beating would be something like a CS Recon 1 Spearpoint..

All my kitchen knives are Victlrinox because they are thin but very tough and great corrosion resistance - my wife leaves them in dirty water and/or throws them in the sink to bang around. Not worth it for me to get that one high end, Japanese Chef's knife in VG10 or carbon steel that cost the same as 4-8 of the Victorinox.
 
If you are not concerned about properly using your knives: use more forgiving steels. They are not any better or worse than VG-10 and some supersteels: they are different in the way that makes them more suitable for your purposes.
 
Sounds as if you 2 aren't very nice to your kitchen cutlery. Can I suggest that you just buy cheap kitchen knives and replace them when they go bad, since it doesn't seem that spending lots of $$$ on good blades worked out for you, maybe spending less money on them and just treating as disposable might be a better option?

I'm not trying to be mean here, this is a method I use as well. If I notice that I constantly break or ruin something, I will treat it as a disposable item. No use buying top end just to chip up. The low end will hold just as crappy of an edge as a chipped up shun, but it won't cost you $150 to replace it.
 
Chicago cutlery, Faberware and Wiltshire are three brands that come to mind for easier kitchen use and longevity... :D

As for folders, VG10 is typically excellent as an all around use steel steel provided it's taken care of properly.
 
I love VG-10, it's one of the easiest steels to work up to razor sharpness in my experience, which makes it great for kitchen knives.

I also have a bunch of different regular production kitchen knives, Wusthofs and Henckels to Globals and Shuns.

Excuse the gross kitchen knife generalization but I'd say it this way: you can't expect a fat, heavy European to cut as well as a skinny, light Asian, but you also can't abuse a skinny, light Asian like you can a fat, heavy European.

Cajun93 said:
I've been out of the knife world but getting back.
They don't go into the DW but do sit in the bottom of sink for a day or two clanging on flatware and dishes and each other.
Click to expand...

So, you treat knives badly for no good reason and are surprised they get messed up?

I've had thin ground Shuns and Globals for years, using and honing and sharpening them regularly, and they still look and work great.

I switched away from heavier Euros over time, after starting with the Henckels, upgrading to Wusthofs before realizing that I liked the thinner, lighter Globals and Shuns. I have a pile of Shuns and they still look great after years.

If you have a tendency to beat on your blades in a way that damages them, maybe a tougher, cheaper small folder would make more sense? Maybe a Tuff Lite in AUS-8 that you could beat to crap and just replace for $25, in place of a nicer Spyderco mini-folder that might get screwed up, for the 2". And then a RAT-1 or RAT-2 for the larger folder, or something similar.

I haven't seen any issues on my small Spydercos in VG-10, but then again I don't really use a 2.4" Kopa hard enough to expect any problems in the first place.
 
If I treated my Richmond Artifex the same way it would be chipped like crazy, but it wouldn't scare me away from M390. Not trying to pick on you, but you need to either take care of premium kitchen cutlery or get something less expensive you can bang around. Again, not to be a jerk, but you're the problem not the VG-10.
 
Play nice guys. I wash and put away after each use. Wife and other visiting family members do not. We cook daily and entertain around the chop block so to speak. The Henckels were purchased by me, Shuns were a gift.

Regardless, some posts answered my concerns. VG10 will likely be fine in MY pocket for what I will be doing. Also, I should not cry when a well made, yet thin blade gets nicked up in a sink by family.
The Esee will be cared for accordingly.

Thanks for the input!....but I must say the forum members seems a hair too uptight/serious...
 
VG10 is a great steel. I wouldnt be concerned.

Kitchen cutlery always gets used and abused, just find something that suits you.
 
Cajun93 said:
Play nice guys. I wash and put away after each use. Wife and other visiting family members do not. We cook daily and entertain around the chop block so to speak. The Henckels were purchased by me, Shuns were a gift.

Regardless, some posts answered my concerns. VG10 will likely be fine in MY pocket for what I will be doing. Also, I should not cry when a well made, yet thin blade gets nicked up in a sink by family.
The Esee will be cared for accordingly.

Thanks for the input!....but I must say the forum members seems a hair too uptight/serious...
Click to expand...

Sorry, we're enthusiasts and wince every time we hear about something like this. I do all the cooking in my house and my girlfriend long ago learned to steer clear of my kitchen cutlery.
 
GarnetandBlack said:
Kitchen cutlery always gets used and abused, just find something that suits you.
Click to expand...

Why'd you edit out your high horse comment?

Anyway, to respond to your original (now edited) comment: I have no argument that kitchen gear gets used hard, but if you take VG-10 down to 15 degrees per side or steeper and then bang it around on hard surfaces, you shouldn't be surprised if it gets dinged up. OP implied that VG-10 had issues, due to it getting beat up in his use. Some of us just pointed out that his use might not be compatible with thin-edged knives.

No big controversy or attack to it. Thin knives slice better, to be sure, but if your pattern of use is to toss them into a stainless sink with the dishes then they're probably not a good idea.

And the beater folders I suggested if OP was going to use them hard? I like and own all the knives I suggested. They're good, cheap, sturdy knives. If I know I'm going to go hacking through dozens of nylon wire ties, I don't grab my William Henry E10-3, I grab my RAT-1 . . .
 
Cajun93 said:
Play nice guys. I wash and put away after each use. Wife and other visiting family members do not. We cook daily and entertain around the chop block so to speak. The Henckels were purchased by me, Shuns were a gift.

Regardless, some posts answered my concerns. VG10 will likely be fine in MY pocket for what I will be doing. Also, I should not cry when a well made, yet thin blade gets nicked up in a sink by family.
The Esee will be cared for accordingly.

Thanks for the input!....but I must say the forum members seems a hair too uptight/serious...
Click to expand...

Some of them are and some of them are know it all's but there are also some very good people on here too. It takes all kinds but don't let the short people that like to flex their internet muscles scare you off this is a great place with tons of info! Just to be fair though I'm not sure anybody here was overly rude to you they were just letting you know that your concerns about VG-10 on your Shuns was a user error issue not the fault of the steel. :)

By the way welcome to Bladeforums!!
 
Your issue with the knives is likely not the steel, but the cross section of the blade. The Henkels might be damaged also, had they thinner edges and lower edge angles. Look at the blades very closely and compare the thickness of steel at the edge bevel, and the angles used to sharpen them. The Shuns can be restored, but if they end up like they are again, I don't really see a reason to spend the time.
 
Ceramic is harder than metal. If you bang and grate a very thin blade edge - which is what all decent Japanese kitchen knives have - against ceramic you damage it. This is about geometry more than steel; Japanese knives offer much better sharpness than clunky Henckels, but require more care. Don't by ultra thing grind knives again unless you are prepared to treat them differently.
 
I have a plan! I'll get the edge back on the Shuns and keep them in a special place or fashion up a lockable knife block.:)
Now on to my big decision....Sage 1, vs Paramilitary, Vs Caly, vs pacific salt vs tenacious.....hmmm....
I love the forum, great wealth of knowledge and entertainment.
After lurking 3 mos and posting once, I don't think many are rude, but some respondents may benefit from a 1/2 mg of alprazolam, or beer of choice, or bedroom activity 20 min prior to posting. :thumbup:
 
Welcome to the forum. A lot of folks here, myself included, get stirred up over the mere notion of knife abuse. Please don't take it personal and as far as the possible knives you mentioned I am particularly fond of the Caly 3.5 and the Para 2.
 
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