Hard Use Knife? Using your knives? Batoning?

[deerhunterp]

I sometimes hear people say that they use their knives. But we all use our knives. It seems that "use" is often times analogues with abuse. I use a hatchet, I don't baton. I use my knives for cutting only. How do you guys use your knives?

 

[Hawk45]

I usually have the best tool for the job, and for me, knives are for cutting. In a pinch I would not hesitate to use a good blade to baton. I don't see a problem with batoning, but can usually find enough dry wood about in the proper size for burning when camping w/o having to resort to batoning. Plenty of small branches to be broken by hand or with a bend over the knee. This is just how I roll.

 

[deerhunterp]

I usually have the best tool for the job, and for me, knives are for cutting. In a pinch I would not hesitate to use a good blade to baton. I don't see a problem with batoning, but can usually find enough dry wood about in the proper size for burning when camping w/o having to resort to batoning. Plenty of small branches to be broken by hand or with a bend over the knee. This is just how I roll.

Yeah I see your point. Fixed blades just don't do much for me. That's why I use other tools. Thanks for the reply

 

[droptyne]

With my pocket knives I am a little more of selective of what I cut, but it's another story with my fixed blades. Which I bought specifically for hard use ( i.e. the .25 in. steel )Now I don't try to cut through cinder block, but I don't think twice about batoning. The knife is a tool, if my knife is the closest thing that I have to that tool, then it gets used.

 

[Stelth]

I like to use the right tool for the job. When I need to turn a screw, I use a screwdriver. When I want to pry, I use a crowbar. If I'm splitting wood, I use an axe. My knives are for cutting.

 

[R.Russell]

With my pocket knives I am a little more of selective of what I cut, but it's another story with my fixed blades. Which I bought specifically for hard use ( i.e. the .25 in. steel )Now I don't try to cut through cinder block, but I don't think twice about batoning. The knife is a tool, if my knife is the closest thing that I have to that tool, then it gets used.

This.

It depends what type of knife you're talking about.

Would you hesitate to baton with a 20" long Busse 1/2" thick maul-sword?

If you use the search button you can find this topic discussed nearly as much as Bear vs. Uncle Ray and folks asking how to make a knife from a file.

I promise you, you will not find consensus on this issue, there is no right answer.

What is often established is that "its none of your damn business what I do with my knife, I bought it with my hard earned money."

One thing is certain. These days many makers are designing blades to handle batoning.

Enjoy your blade-time, and don't let the batoning get ya down brother.

 

[deerhunterp]

This.

It depends what type of knife you're talking about.

Would you hesitate to baton with a 20" long Busse 1/2" thick maul-sword?

If you use the search button you can find this topic discussed nearly as much as Bear vs. Uncle Ray and folks asking how to make a knife from a file.

I promise you, you will not find consensus on this issue, there is no right answer.

What is often established is that "its none of your damn business what I do with my knife, I bought it with my hard earned money."

One thing is certain. These days many makers are designing blades to handle batoning.

Enjoy your blade-time, and don't let the batoning get ya down brother.

I see your point as well. Thanks for the reply.

 

[hank_rearden]

1. you have to pry open a stuck car door handle in which a woman somehow got her finger stuck with people all round and no one knew what to do. after almost a minute she had turned cold and clammy.
2. on yanking out an expensive beach umbrella, we discovered the plastic ferulle was left at the bottom of the hole (12" of hard clayey soil.)
3. a chain lock somehow had the metal knob stuck in the channel and all of a sudden there's a fire alarm.

in all occasions the only tool available was my 10-year old gerber bolt action lockbck with a plastic handle. it did all three jobs. you carry a knife for emergencies. at least once out of ten the emergency calls for a different tool but all you have is your knife.

 

[deerhunterp]

This.

It depends what type of knife you're talking about.

Would you hesitate to baton with a 20" long Busse 1/2" thick maul-sword?

If you use the search button you can find this topic discussed nearly as much as Bear vs. Uncle Ray and folks asking how to make a knife from a file.

I promise you, you will not find consensus on this issue, there is no right answer.

What is often established is that "its none of your damn business what I do with my knife, I bought it with my hard earned money."

One thing is certain. These days many makers are designing blades to handle batoning.

Enjoy your blade-time, and don't let the batoning get ya down brother.

I see your point as well. Thanks for the reply.

 

[deerhunterp]

1. you have to pry open a stuck car door handle in which a woman somehow got her finger stuck with people all round and no one knew what to do. after almost a minute she had turned cold and clammy.
2. on yanking out an expensive beach umbrella, we discovered the plastic ferulle was left at the bottom of the hole (12" of hard clayey soil.)
3. a chain lock somehow had the metal knob stuck in the channel and all of a sudden there's a fire alarm.

in all occasions the only tool available was my 10-year old gerber bolt action lockbck with a plastic handle. it did all three jobs. you carry a knife for emergencies. at least once out of ten the emergency calls for a different tool but all you have is your knife.

I agree that you may have to do all kind of things with a knife in an emergency, but I'm just talking about day to day life when you have many resources at your command

 

[hank_rearden]

ah, there are few places outside of your house wherein the right tool is available. so a body carry often implies what you're going to use because it's all you have. in our office, there's hardly any stock of tools and equipment one might need in an emergency.

but to answer your question, the most taxing use for a knife-as-a-knife for me was in making a whole lot of bamboo and paper lanterns during one festival. as a known knife man, i was assigned to whittle the bamboo into thin rods for the frames. no working knife available. i cut, whittled and skived smoke-hardened bamboo all day (bamboo can easily dull a fine blade.) the buck 110 edge survived the day.

 

[t1mpani]

I use them for whatever task that comes to hand that they're capable of performing well. Hunting/hiking/box opening/cooking/nail trimming/juggling (but only with some burning torches in the mix).

I use thin knives with very hard tempers/abrasion resistant steels for slicing fragile (tomato) or abrasive (cardboard) materials. I use thick knives with less abrasion-resistant steels that have much higher levels of ductility and shock resistance for heavier work, such as splitting, batoning, scraping and some chopping. Seeing as how I've never once needed to build a log cabin in the wild, the notion of lugging an axe along with me has always seemed a tad stupid. I know many people here who would have no hesitancy at all in using an Estwing hatchet to chop wood; and yet---when I point out to them (with comparative pictures no less) that the blade geometry of the Estwing is actually no more robust than a heavy fixed blade and then go on to mention that the Estwing's steel is greatly inferior in both its edge holding ability and resistance to damage when compared to many of the best hard use blade steels: 4140 in the low 50s HRC versus 5160, L6, INFI, 3V, etc. in the high 50s or even low 60s---they balk and then usually get rather condescending in a "You just don't understand" kind of way. GB hatchets are even finer geometry, and will suffer greatly from a slightly glancing blow into hard wood, or hitting a hidden hard object like a nail or small stone that's imbedded in the wood. That doesn't make them a poor tool, just one you have to use good sense with, like anything else. I have knives that can take far more abuse than most hatchets, and hatchets that are sharper than most can get their knives.

Batoning properly is a skill, just as dicing vegetables really close to you fingers is a skill---you can do it right and also really, really wrong. People are certainly entitled to their opinions but the pure, blanket "Knives are for cutting" statement has always struck me as rather obstinately unconsidered. It essentially suggests that a 1/16" Swiss Army Knife blade and a 5/16" bolo blade are intended for the same scope of work.

Knife suitability is based upon geometry (both blade and edge), steel selection and heat treatment. A scalpel performing facial reconstruction is on one end, and a beef splitter lopping through huge chunks of bone and meat is on the other. Both of them are for *cutting*.

 

[hank_rearden]

in the philippines, a machete longer than 12 inches will do all the work of chopping (and you don't baton a machete, do you?) besides that, all you probably need is a sharp knife less than 6" long for fine work.

 

[marthinus]

All my knives are used for hard cutting chores such as rubber pipes with those fibers in them, similar mats, CV Boots etc. I have posted the vidoes. However I don't abuse my knives past their limitations of design.

 

[t1mpani]

However I don't abuse my knives past their limitations of design.

Can I get an Amen?

 

[fmajor007]

For me, "hard use" is lots of heavy chopping, bad and/or improper batonning technique or cutting heavy fiber/metal braided hose. I generally don't subject my knives to this kind of use. Also, i can't think of a time recently when i've used my knife to pry something (other than splitting wood related to batonning) so that's not a frequently used application.

All this being said, i baton and de-limb branches with my field knife *every time* i make a fire so my field knife *needs* to be stout. I tend to use use the tip on my field knife alot - driving it into the wood so it also has to be pretty stout. My current field knife is a Cold Steel Trailmaster and with a 5/16" thick spine and having a full-flat grind, it's proven itself more than capable - maybe even a bit too big (honestly, it's a bit too long for my needs).

I'm a big fan of folding saws for larger-sized wood processing and felling if need be, but i can fell a tree by cross-batonning if necessary.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I use my EDCs for a half dozen things or more every day. It can range from something as mundane as sharpening a pencil or scraping a splinter out of my hand to shaping a notch and marking lumber.

Yesterday I used it to pry beadboard to one side or the other to get it plumb. Beadboard can stick together very tightly after being joined, and can be pried back apart slightly to straighten it. A strong bladed pocket knife works well for this job. I also cut the straps on cabinet packing boxes, used it to pick up a piece of 20" tile high enough off a concrete floor to get my fingers under it, cut plastic tubing, shaving splinters off a board, cutting plastic sheeting, prying the lid off a paint can, cutting the mesh holding tile together, and a few other things I can't remember.

Andy

 

[Mike-The-Knife]

Originally Posted by marthinus
However I don't abuse my knives past their limitations of design.

See , that statment right there is why this type of thread usually ends in disagreement .

Everyone knows that knives are designed to cut . However not everyone seems to know that "some" companies do design their knives to also be able to pry , hammer , cut metal , batton , dig and whatever might be nessissary in extream combat situations . They ARE knives and are usually never more than 1/4" think , so they still cut well , but they are made of select steels and heat treated differently to allow for extreme use .

Those of us who choose to pay a little more and buy these knives know that they can be used hard . They where made for it . Of corse I still use the right tool for the job around the house . But when hiking , snowshoeing or back packing , I don't see the need to carry 25 pounds of tools with me because I know my knife CAN do everything I need .


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HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS !

 

[cziv]

I process campfire wood with all my EDC folders, from a $25 RAT-1 to a $500 Hinderer. Ya just got to know how to do it!

Rick Hinderer posted that I was correct in stating that you can baton with a folder if you unlock it and use the blade as a wedge. I don't carry fixed blades all the time - hardly ever as an EDC so it's good to know. Ya can't get too greedy on your cut sizes either. One whack to start it, then unlock and finish your cut. I cheat and keep cotton balls in my little fire kits, stored in a zip-lock with a small dab of "vasoline chapstick" on each one - they make awesome starter material when pulled apart to a very fine limit and last for several minutes. :thumbup:

Get out the hot dogs and marshmallows!!

 

[Hawk45]

Yeah I see your point. Fixed blades just don't do much for me. That's why I use other tools. Thanks for the reply

I never used to be a big fixed blade guy either b/c I find them too big to carry and my folders can do all my tasks I ask a knife to do.. That being said, I have a nice stable of quality fixed blades for hiking/camping to accompany my folder and usually a folding saw or mini-ax (or chainsaw). So if you don't have a nice fixed blade, I'd recommend picking one up as they can be invaluable. I'll admit that though mine don't get enough use.. I love a good fixed blade knife. So much usable artwork out there. Cheers.