Hard use that would destroy a regular folder?

mlanghornes

mlanghornes

Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
798
I was doing some soul (read:wallet) searching the other day and wondered why do we, as knife knuts, spend extra on the latest and greatest do-everything knives when we are also the least likely demographic to use a knife as anything other than a cutting tool? That lead me to wonder what "hard use" can you imagine needing to do with a "tactical" knife that require it to have a black coated blade, g10 handles, the world's strongest lock, super steel blade, etc etc?

I'd really like to hear from anyone who's served in the military and used a folding knife while deployed, or in any tough situations. Anyone who's worked on construction sites or in a wilderness setting, and has used a folding knife strenuously, please chime in as well.

Actually, anyone who regularly beats the sh*t out of their gear, please tell me about it, and why you needed anything more than a knife that opened with one hand and locked that way.
 
Some people like quality along with function, myself being one of them.

However I'm also a collector, and not of just knives. So I buy knives that I know ill never use. Even people who collect simple things, like buttons, strive to get not just the most but the rarest, the best built, etc.

I have many hard use folders, and I've used them for light to heavy prying, cutting objects both easy and hard to cut, used them while closed to break ice, glass, etc.

Some of these folders cost me 500, 300, some have cost me 30. All are well built, and all are ones I wanted, and am lucky enough to have the means to buy them.
 
I dont beat the crap out of my folders, but as a machinist my spydercos are put through things that would break a cheap no-name folder 10 times over. Also, as you said yes, as knife nuts were less likely to use our knives to scrape paint, dig holes, and scratch lines in concrete. But the reason we dont do those things is the same reason we spend the money to get the latest and greatest: because we appreciate them. we like having the best because we can see the difference in design and craftmans ship that you miss out on buying low quality knives.
 
I totally get the paying-more-for-quality thing, and the collectible, I-want-the-best thing. Lord knows I have plenty of those purchases myself, and don't get me wrong, I'm glad we have the opportunity to pick from a huge variety of folding knives for our every (almost) fancy.

I'm just wondering about the practicality side of things.
 
I think this is a valid question, but if we think about it, we could ask the same thing about most stuff. Why can most cars drive above 75mph? Why get 2-ply toilet paper?
 
mlanghornes said:
I'm just wondering about the practicality side of things.
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When has man ever really been practical? I know I don't need new knives, but since I have the means to purchase what I want or even trade for it, I do. Nothing practical about it. Just me wanting something and then making it mine.
 
mlanghornes said:
That lead me to wonder what "hard use" can you imagine needing to do with a "tactical" knife that require it to have a black coated blade, g10 handles, the world's strongest lock, super steel blade, etc etc?

Actually, anyone who regularly beats the sh*t out of their gear, please tell me about it, and why you needed anything more than a knife that opened with one hand and locked that way.
Click to expand...

I'm not in the military but I routinely work crappy jobs and generally prefer higher-end knives for my uses. I cut a lot of stuff, sometimes it's dense material that is hard to cut. Sometimes it's out in the rain in the woods when everything's muddy and oily. I get a lot of variety in where and what I cut. :D

Black blades are generally just an aesthetic choice, similar to colored handles. Just a personal preference, variety is nice.

G10 handles are very good when you're wet/greasy/oily and so forth but I've actually found a good textured FRN handle like the bi-directional pattern Spyderco uses to work better since it doesn't tend to clog like the woven pattern of G10 can.

Strong locks are good. Lots of us can't carry a fixed blade but still need something sturdy when we're cutting in less than ideal conditions.

Super steel allows me to get off work, toss my knife in my EDC bin and plop down on the couch without having to sharpen it every single day. Saving that 15-20 minutes is very important when you're on short time and need to relax after a shift.

Need and practicality are something for planning departments to ponder about. The hobbyist or enthusiast doesn't really care. I buy things that seems useful to me and look cool to my eye. Of course there are functional and practical choices being made but those vary so much from user to user since we all use our knives for different roles and different requirements.
 
What I find is that as knife technology improves, my use of knives expands into more and harder use situations.

No different than computers, cell phones, cars, etc. They make it better, and we as consumers find new ways to use it.

I'm typing this on my cell phone - who would have thought a few years ago!

My first real folder was a Benchmade bought many years ago. I thought that was the stuff! Now it is dwarfed by my newer folders - in every way! Hardware, blade length and thickness, etc. I can do stuff with my newer folders I do not feel comfortable doing with the older ones.

The bigger and badder they make them the harder I will use them.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Why buy a Porsche instead of a Volkswagen?
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I think that is a crappy analogy. OP was talking about using a knife hard. When it comes to cars, I wouldn't call a Porsche as a hard use automobile. For that we have pickup trucks and offroad capable vehicles.

A Porsche to me is for cars, what a CRK is for knives. (Yes, I used a quality production car since there are no "custom cars" -that I know of- only custom options).

Answering the OP's question: for peace of mind. If I need to use something hard, I rather have a knife that I feel is up to the task.
 
harkamus said:
I think that is a crappy analogy. OP was talking about using a knife hard. When it comes to cars, I wouldn't call a Porsche as a hard use automobile. For that we have pickup trucks and offroad capable vehicles.

A Porsche to me is for cars, what a CRK is for knives. (Yes, I used a quality production car since there are no "custom cars" -that I know of- only custom options).

Answering the OP's question: for peace of mind. If I need to use something hard, I rather have a knife that I feel is up to the task.
Click to expand...

Well, trucks may be a better analogy, but racing isn't easy on a car.
 
Color me odd (most folks do), but I differentiate between a "hard use" knife and a "high quality" knife.

I would consider "hard use" something on the order of a strider or XM-18.

I would consider "high quality" a Benchmade or most Spydercos, though both companies do make some "hard use" folders.

-Some folks like "Hard use" folders, not because of what they have to do on a daily basis, but because of what they could do if the need arose.
-Other folks just want to show how tough they are because they carry a hard use knife.
-And there are folks that honestly need such a thing.
 
Had to re-read that one after looking at the replys:
"Actually, anyone who regularly beats the sh*t out of their gear, please tell me about it, and why you needed anything more than a knife that opened with one hand and locked that way".
Not what we want, but what we need.
That question answers itself...
 
Define "regular folder", or site an example that is very subjective and open ended here as what is regular to me is not regular to you, and so on?

Let me assume for a moment that regular would be say a kershaw junkyard dog and a "non regular" which is also an assumption on my part of what your were trying to say, would be a strider sng.

I would say that certain types of prying would hard on the kershaw while the sng would probably handle it alright, I would also say that certain types of batoning would also be hard on the kershaw as well, while the sng would probably be ok. By this I mean the kershaw would probably not be as tight in terms of tolerance when you finished as when you started. Maybe some blade play horizontal or vertical, maybe some loose screws, etc. while the strider would be more or less as solid as was it was before you started.
 
I guess I'll chime in here.

I don't care about the lock, I grew up using slipjoints. If it will hold the blade open against the pull of gravity, that's good enough for me.

I don't care if the blade has a little play. I've made and repaired enough machinery over the years to know that a little too tight will shorten the lifespan much more than a little loose. I've also made enough gear to understand why those tightly fitted pieces are so expensive.

Blade coatings? Don't need them, want them or like them.

G-10 handles? G-10 is generally pretty good stuff. Most of the G-10 I've handled gives good purchase, seems pretty durable, and has a fairly low thermal conductivity (it doesn't feel very hot or very cold when you pick it up). Ditto for FRN, or jigged bone for that matter. That and ergonomics are what I look for.

Super steel? This is where you will find me spending my money. I work in building maintenence. There are two of us keeping up 133 apartments, 4 laundry facilities and three community centers. Drywall repairs are commonplace, and cutting out damage, scraping off thirty years worth of paint, texture, tape, mud, plaster and whaterever else has been slapped on over the years will dull even a good steel in a hurry. For me, the difference between 1095 carbon and S90V is the difference between having 8 dull blades to sharpen on my lunch break and again after work and having one or two blades to sharpen in the evening. Is that difference worth the extra money the S90V knife will cost? My answer to that is a resounding "Oh Yeah!"

What aggravates me is the knives with super steel usually are built to be used as crowbars. I can't tell you how much time I've spent laughing at people here on these forums whining about this or that knife having a "delicate tip". Most of the knives mentioned are what I would call ridiculously thick, usually three times what I would deem ideal for most of what I do. I only had Tom Krein take my ZDP Endura down to 0.010" behind the edge because I was still going to use it for drywall (which I've done with no problem). That is about a fourth of the thickness from the factory. And I'll bet Spyderco still gets those knives coming in with broken tips.

Just because we know a little more and spend a lot more apparently doesn't mean we are less likely to misuse our knives. On the contrary. Reading here has convinced me that on the whole, the more we spend on a knife, the more likely we are to do something we shouldn't on the theory that "for that price, it should be able to stand that".
 
I was a US Navy diver for a 9 years, and we did quite a lot of work under ships and around wharves & piers, cutting away all the crap that get wrapped, stuck, and caught.

Over the years we tried all kinds of knives, mostly stainless steel fixed blades, but then we migrated to some more robust folders like the Spyderco Police models with stainless sides (the plastic handle models were way too flimsy).

We also migrated to using the Benchmade/Emerson CQC 7B models with the tanto blades. The regular blade models dulled very quickly, but we found a gem in the titanium blade model with the carbide impregnated blade. It stayed sharp for quite a while, I guess due to the carbide, and it didn't rust or need a lot of lube to keep working well. We abused the hell out these titanium bladed models, and they kept coming back for more.

The tanto blade was great for scraping garbage and barnacles off ships, piers, etc., and I can't recall ever breaking the blades of one of these. We did destroy the micarta handles though, as the knife doubled a small hammer and/or chisel when one was not handy. We had some enterprising machinist mate machine us some stainless spines when the plastic spines got all gnarled up....boy I wish I'd kept some of those, as my current carry CQC 7 has a plastic spine that's starting to disintegrate.

So, to answer your question, yes, we used the hell out of $250 knives and they held up well. While many hated the titanium blades (they would not shave hair off your arm, but you could cut someone's arm off even after using the knife for a year), they served us well. I still have at least one new one squirreled away, awaiting a rainy day.

Cheers! :cool:
 
mlanghornes said:
I was doing some soul (read:wallet) searching the other day and wondered why do we, as knife knuts, spend extra on the latest and greatest do-everything knives when we are also the least likely demographic to use a knife as anything other than a cutting tool? That lead me to wonder what "hard use" can you imagine needing to do with a "tactical" knife that require it to have a black coated blade, g10 handles, the world's strongest lock, super steel blade, etc etc?

I'd really like to hear from anyone who's served in the military and used a folding knife while deployed, or in any tough situations. Anyone who's worked on construction sites or in a wilderness setting, and has used a folding knife strenuously, please chime in as well.

Actually, anyone who regularly beats the sh*t out of their gear, please tell me about it, and why you needed anything more than a knife that opened with one hand and locked that way.
Click to expand...

IMO most decent quality folders are about the same when it comes to hard use.
A blade stop and pivot pin can only take so much.

That's why we have fixed blades, like this one...
http://shop.scrapyardknives.com/category.sc?categoryId=4
(Seriously the Regulator is one of the best deals in knife history, get one now. Don't think about it, just do it. Now.)
 
The edge retention of super steels has been mentioned (a big plus). The unusual properties of Ti blades +1. I'm not fond of plastic handles. They don't stand up to dropping on concrete. I'll take a Ti handle any day. After that I like the ease of operation and maintenance of a quality knife. If a blade is coated with a ceramic like Titanium Nitride (TiN), it can be used as a finishing steel for other knives. I can get replacement parts and warranty service on a premium knife. Often a high end knife will be designed by a person who is an artist as well as a maker. The aesthetics escalate. Add to this package a lock that is very safe, and you have knife worth the price and a pleasure to own and use (hard if you want).
 
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