Hard work down the drain (Updated)

Willie71 said:
When they say mix for a minute, they mean it.
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This is very important. The chemical reaction will start very rapidly if you leave any concentrated areas in the mix. Mix well with a popsicle stick. A box with a lifetime supply can be bought for a few bucks. Mix in a circle, reverse direction, mix crosswise, and then back in a circle again. After you are sure it is fully mixed, mix it a little more. As Willie says, most problems are caused by improper mixing.

The ratio is also very important. If it says to mix 1:1, then make sure the two puddles are exactly even. Using a gram scale is more precise. Most resins aren't exactly 1:1 by weight, and many good resins have the weight ratio marked. If there is no weight ratio marked, 1:1 is usually close enough. The lowest ratio I have for a resin is 100:84 (resin to hardener) and another is 100:97.

I use the small cups that you get for take out of catsup and sauces. Don't steal them from McD's, buy a box at Costco or Sam's. A case will last ten makers three lifetimes, so try and get a few friends to go in on it.

Add the resin to the cup first....never the other way around.
Mix in the cup for 1 minute, and then pour into a wide plastic lid or pan. If doing one handle I just work from the small cup. But, when doing multiple handles, I use 24 hour epoxy and a wide container to do 20 handles or more in one batch of resin.
 
Good advice again from Stacy.
In my head I count from 0 to 60 while mixing. I found that hot epoxy mixes much better then at room temperature.
I let the comtainer sit in hot water for a while before using. After aplying I take the knife in to my bathroom with the heat on max to cure.
The warmer the epoxy the better the bond.
 
So I've finished the shaping, sanding, and sealing of my handles and I'm basically done with this one but I have a few questions.

First question: While I was able to salvage the scales from the original debacle, I managed to get some of the blue painters tape underneath the epoxy at the tips of the scales. Despite my best efforts, I slightly scratched the steel while removing the tape. It's not the most noticeable scratch but it is there. There are also a couple of phantom scratches that I'm am still unclear as to how it received these since it was under tape for the duration of the project. I do have pink rouge that I could use, but this blade was already finished to a mirrored effect. In order to get the buffer in the tight space I would have to apply the rouge against the grain of the steel. Would that create a noticeably uneven finish?

Next question: I was thinking about a laser engraving on this since it's a gift. What kind of laser engraving should I be asking for when I contact shops about this? I don't know if there are different kinds that affect the blade differently or just have a different appearance.

And finally: What are your thoughts on my work? These handles were a little more complex than the last one I did. They taper from back to front and from top to bottom. I like the effect of the spacers but noticed that in certain areas, they are flush with the scales and tang, and in others there is slight separation filled with epoxy. Any tips in avoiding that next time? I used tung oil to finish the wood. The first coat took a long time to soak in and dry. I'm wondering if tung oil was a good choice. It ultimately soaked in and after a few coats it feels nice and protected and gives off a nice shine.

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lloydxmas250 said:
So I've finished the shaping, sanding, and sealing of my handles and I'm basically done with this one but I have a few questions.



Next question: I was thinking about a laser engraving on this since it's a gift. What kind of laser engraving should I be asking for when I contact shops about this? I don't know if there are different kinds that affect the blade differently or just have a different appearance.
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You have to mention that it is on Steel or Stainless steel whatever you are using.

Not all processes mark stainless well, it's more expensive for that equipment ans less common.
 
Lloyd,

I'll offer some suggestions for your next handle based on some of my "hard knocks" learning, but keep in mind there are many ways to achieve the same results.

First I make absolutely sure that the tang and the inside surface of each scale is flat. You can easily achieve this by laying a sheet of sandpaper on any very flat surface and sanding against it. Pick up the piece often and study the scratch pattern; you will be able to tell when the item is truely flat when the scratch pattern is the same across the entire surface. Some times I find that it helps to alternate direction each time I resume sanding so that I can see what is already flat and how much further to take the piece.

My next step is to glue the liner material to the scales, before I glue the scales to the tang. I made a small set (aprox. 4" x6") of flat aluminum plates for this process. I cut my scales and spacer material slightly oversize to allow for some movement during this glue up. I use the same slow set epoxy as I use for the final glue up, and I use wax paper between the plate and the liner, and the scale and the plate on the other side so that the epoxy doesn't stick the whole thing together. Use even but not excessive clamping pressure while the glue sets up. I also find that it helps to scuff the surface of the liner material before the glue-up. And, as many have said previously it is very important for all surfaces that are to be glued together to be absolutly clean. I use Acetone followed by Denatured Alcohol to wipe down the surfaces.

After the liner is in place I drill the pin holes though the liner/scale assembly and then I add a bunch of holes that only penetrate thru the liner and into the scale a very little bit. The result is to make "dimples" for the glue to bind to on the inside of the scale. Next, it's back to flat sanding the inside of the liner/scale to remove any high spots from the drilling process. Also, make sure you clean again with Acetone and Alcohol to remove contaminates prior to glue up. Again even but not excessive pressure is important when clamping the assembly together during final assembly.

Finally, Tung oil is a good choice for handle finish, but it is one that can't be rushed for best results. Pure Tung Oil does not dry; it actually polimerizes when exposed to the Oxygen in air. This process takes at least 24 hrs(sometimes longer in cooler temp.) so it it best to do in very thin coats and allow ample time before adding your next coat. The advantage of the finish is that is is water proof when fully cured and properly applied. It is also easy to touch up later simply by lightly sanding with high grit paper or steel wool and then adding another coat.

All of this takes time to achieve the results that you truely want. Don't be tempted to rush things along for best results. Do some more searches on here and read alot, it's amazing the wealth of information here.

Have fun

Jeff
 
Iwannashoot said:
Lloyd,

I'll offer some suggestions for your next handle based on some of my "hard knocks" learning, but keep in mind there are many ways to achieve the same results.

First I make absolutely sure that the tang and the inside surface of each scale is flat. You can easily achieve this by laying a sheet of sandpaper on any very flat surface and sanding against it. Pick up the piece often and study the scratch pattern; you will be able to tell when the item is truely flat when the scratch pattern is the same across the entire surface. Some times I find that it helps to alternate direction each time I resume sanding so that I can see what is already flat and how much further to take the piece.

My next step is to glue the liner material to the scales, before I glue the scales to the tang. I made a small set (aprox. 4" x6") of flat aluminum plates for this process. I cut my scales and spacer material slightly oversize to allow for some movement during this glue up. I use the same slow set epoxy as I use for the final glue up, and I use wax paper between the plate and the liner, and the scale and the plate on the other side so that the epoxy doesn't stick the whole thing together. Use even but not excessive clamping pressure while the glue sets up. I also find that it helps to scuff the surface of the liner material before the glue-up. And, as many have said previously it is very important for all surfaces that are to be glued together to be absolutly clean. I use Acetone followed by Denatured Alcohol to wipe down the surfaces.

After the liner is in place I drill the pin holes though the liner/scale assembly and then I add a bunch of holes that only penetrate thru the liner and into the scale a very little bit. The result is to make "dimples" for the glue to bind to on the inside of the scale. Next, it's back to flat sanding the inside of the liner/scale to remove any high spots from the drilling process. Also, make sure you clean again with Acetone and Alcohol to remove contaminates prior to glue up. Again even but not excessive pressure is important when clamping the assembly together during final assembly.

Finally, Tung oil is a good choice for handle finish, but it is one that can't be rushed for best results. Pure Tung Oil does not dry; it actually polimerizes when exposed to the Oxygen in air. This process takes at least 24 hrs(sometimes longer in cooler temp.) so it it best to do in very thin coats and allow ample time before adding your next coat. The advantage of the finish is that is is water proof when fully cured and properly applied. It is also easy to touch up later simply by lightly sanding with high grit paper or steel wool and then adding another coat.

All of this takes time to achieve the results that you truely want. Don't be tempted to rush things along for best results. Do some more searches on here and read alot, it's amazing the wealth of information here.

Have fun

Jeff
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Jeff,

Hey I actually followed much of the stuff you suggested. Not all, but most. I think much of it is also just time and experience. The idea of doing the spacers and scales together and at a different time than the tang is a great idea and one of those I can't believe I never thought of. But dimples and leveling the scales I did. Perhaps I didn't get them as flat as I thought but the scales appeared flat when I put scale to scale. I think I may have still been having some epoxy issues and I just couldn't get it flush before it started hardening.\

One thing I'm confused on is the practice of heating up the epoxy for mixing. I did that when I originally had my big problem and as a result, in my head associated warming the epoxy with it drying too fast. In the future I will try a different epoxy and maybe even doing one scale at a time if it means a better fit and enough working time.
 
Anyone have a recipe for the scratches? Or just accept that they're there and the knife will receive more soon as the recipient uses filet knives with regularity?
 
This being a factory blade, the mirror polish is easily damaged. To repair the scratches, you would have to hand sand the entire hardened blade. Probably not a real possibility. In the future, tape up the blade well and keep it taped up until the handle is completely done.

The way to avoid damaging the ricasso when finishing the front of the handles is to finish that area before assembly. Any attempt to sand this area after assembly is fraught with peril.

When gluing up the handle, tape the blade from the tip to within 1/2" of the handle. Wipe off any squeeze out of resin during assembly, and clean the area with acetone and a paper towel after the epoxy has just gelled ( but isn't hard yet). As the epoxy sets hard, clean again with acetone to get any last squeeze-out. After the epoxy cures, clean the area one last time with a paper towel just barely dampened with acetone. This should remove all resin and any film left. Tape up the ricasso area with at least four layers of tape. Tape right up to the handle......now sand and shape the handle. BTW, the blue painters tape is what most folks use. It does not leave much residue.
 
That's exactly what I did. In fact I taped too much and got the tape too close to the scales and despite me cleaning with acetone after clamping I still managed to get some of the painters tape under some epoxy and acetone would not free it. Those scratches are a result of scraping left over tape and epoxy off. Of not for that it would have a perfect finish. As for te one scratch further toward the tip on the ricasso, I have no idea. Only thing I can think it a little scratch before it got taped, but I taped up the blade shortly after receiving it so who knows.
 
From my kayak building days, the bottom of a cold soda (beer) can makes a great small mixing basin. Mix it and use it before you open the can. The cold slows the cure and after you pull off a good job, the soda tastes sweet. Small batches only, but the bottom of the can has proven to be a very good mixing spot for JB weld and epoxy. Easy to hold, easy to set down and always seems to be available.

Hope this helps.

Also used the little 2 oz cups that kids use to rinse toothpaste at the sink when I needed more. Popsicle sticks at Michael's Hobby store or coffee stirrers at Starbucks also come in handy...
 
Use some brass flat bar stock sharpened into a chisel to scrape off any hardened squeeze out. The brass is harder than the epoxy yet softer than the steel and, therefore, will not scratch it.
 
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