Harvel Surface Grinder?

JG Custom Metal Works

JG Custom Metal Works

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Nov 27, 2013
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I know a guy who has a Harvel Surface grinder for sale for $700. Anyone here know anything about these machines? I think it's a manual machine. Here are some pics of it:








I already have a Wuertz Machine Tool Surface Grinder attachment for my KMG but to be honest, my grinder isn't working right with it. This is very likely due to my grinder and not the Wuertz surface grinder attachment. In fact I have a line out to him at the moment and he has offered to help me figure it out, even though it's probably not because of his attachment(that's some good customer service right there). From what I've seen in the past, I always thought machines like this were thousands of dollars. Is this something I should jump on? Here's all the info he provided on it:

Harvel Surface Grinder ( made in USA ) 8" X 15" magnetic chuck, 240V 3-phase
Good working unit, under power for demonstration. Weighs about 1000 lbs. Local pickup only.
 
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There ain't a whole lot that can go wrong with them. Especially for knife making. If it works and the table shuttles freely I would buy it.
 
You'll either have to use a phase converter or VFD for that one unless you have three phase in the shop, or change out the motor.
 
That's about what I paid for mine. You could check spindle runout with an indicator if you're unsure about it.
There's probably a long line of guys that would jump all over your Wertz SGA if you decide to sell it. Another thing you might check is if it has the original motor. If it does, that's a good thing.
If you get it, look into buying the wheel Don Hanson is running, I bought one on his recommendation and it works great!
 
kuraki said:
There ain't a whole lot that can go wrong with them. Especially for knife making. If it works and the table shuttles freely I would buy it.
Click to expand...

That's somewhat true, but unfortunately the one or two things that CAN go wrong with them can really turn the machine into more of a headache than it is worth.

Check the spindle for runout and make sure the bearings are still in good shape. If the table runs on ways, make sure there's no excessive wear. If the guy can surface a piece or two, even better.
 
Grinding a plate for a function test is fine, but unless he's going to grind 5 blocks or set up the test plate on 3 points to check for flat, it's just a function test.


JG if you do grind a test plate, make sure you dress the wheel first so you don't think the choppy finish you'll get from an undressed wheel is a problem with the machine.
 
Examine the ways and make sure they aren't worn to hell or allow for play, but otherwise I'd snag something like that in a heartbeat.

Is your problem with your Weurtz a result of the Weurtz, or your grinder?



JG Custom Metal Works said:
I know a guy who has a Harvel Surface grinder for sale for $700. Anyone here know anything about these machines? I think it's a manual machine. Here are some pics of it:








I already have a Wuertz Machine Tool Surface Grinder attachment for my KMG but to be honest, it isn't working that great. From what I've seen in the past, I always thought machines like this were thousands of dollars. Is this something I should jump on? Here's all the info he provided on it:

Harvel Surface Grinder ( made in USA ) 8" X 15" magnetic chuck, 240V 3-phase
Good working unit, under power for demonstration. Weighs about 1000 lbs. Local pickup only.
Click to expand...
 
I knew you guys would come through. Thanks a bunch for the information fellas, I appreciate it!

Mathew, I'm not sure what the problem is with my Wuertz surface grinder attachment. It very well could be my grinder. I probably should have mentioned that in the OP as I don't want to come off as if I'm slighting his product at all. Thanks for asking that, I'm gonna change the OP to reflect that. I was the guy who emailed you the other day regarding the direct drive conversion for the KMG. I've been trying to figure out what the issue is but I have a 2yr old Yorkshire Terrier who is having problems with her back. In an effort to rehab her and keep her back legs from being paralyzed(showing signs right now), we've been having to immobilize her and carry her everywhere. Being the psychopathic terrier that she is, it doesn't leave a lot of time for knifemaking stuff.

Just spoke with the guy again and he's willing to let it go for $600. Hmmm... It's really tempting but it's gonna be a real PITA to move it from the trailer into my garage. They have a forklift there, so getting it into my trailer wouldn't be an issue. Getting it out WOULD be. I have a Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table with wheels but it's only rated for 1000lbs. I'm thinking that might be a little risky being Chicom made and all. Moving it from the table to the ground would still be an issue...
 
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After trying to move mine to a trailer and the fear of it falling over, because it was very top heavy, we paid a guy that moves vending machines and safes. It was WELL worth the cost. He had the manpower, a lift gate, heavy duty ramps, and years of experience.
Also, you'll want to clamp the ways before it moves so the vibration doesn't ding them up.
 
I've got a K O Lee thats very similar, mine is belt drive so I just swapped out the motor, there was a 3 phase motor on
it to start with. That was 13+ years ago and I could'nt be happier. Buy it, I paid $700 fpr mine years ago.
Ken.
 
Engine hoists are a treat to have. Maybe 200 bucks but I use mine all the time lifting things. I use mine to move my 1800# Little Giant with no problem. It has a 2 ton rating.
Get one since he dropped the price. Use it to unload it.
The you'll always have a means of lifting heavy items.

That said - it only weighs 1000 pounds. I wouldn't let that stop me from buying it.
Get it on a trailer and I can promise you'll figure out a way to get it off.
 
I knew who you were, man - just wasn't sure if you'd managed to do any further troubleshooting, or if you had perhaps found some other area of concern. Unless every other attachment works flawlessly on your KMG, I'd be hard pressed to believe it was an issue with Travis's piece.

I'm with everyone else in this thread - find a way to get the surface grinder, just be careful moving it. I know of at least one other knifemaker that nearly destroyed his hand in an accident involving moving a surface grinder. I agree with Karl on acquiring the proper tools to assist in moving, but I also know that a good rigger knows how to do things the safest and quickest way, and perhaps that way is the most cost effective in the long run.


JG Custom Metal Works said:
I knew you guys would come through. Thanks a bunch for the information fellas, I appreciate it!

Mathew, I'm not sure what the problem is with my Wuertz surface grinder attachment. It very well could be my grinder. I probably should have mentioned that in the OP as I don't want to come off as if I'm slighting his product at all. Thanks for asking that, I'm gonna change the OP to reflect that. I was the guy who emailed you the other day regarding the direct drive conversion for the KMG. I've been trying to figure out what the issue is but I have a 2yr old Yorkshire Terrier who is having problems with her back. In an effort to rehab her and keep her back legs from being paralyzed(showing signs right now), we've been having to immobilize her and carry her everywhere. Being the psychopathic terrier that she is, it doesn't leave a lot of time for knifemaking stuff.

Just spoke with the guy again and he's willing to let it go for $600. Hmmm... It's really tempting but it's gonna be a real PITA to move it from the trailer into my garage. They have a forklift there, so getting it into my trailer wouldn't be an issue. Getting it out WOULD be. I have a Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table with wheels but it's only rated for 1000lbs. I'm thinking that might be a little risky being Chicom made and all. Moving it from the table to the ground would still be an issue...
Click to expand...
 
Thought I would offer a couple of suggestions for moving it. If nothing else these can be "Plan B" options if want to try unloading it yourself.

You can post an ad on craigslist asking for a mover with experience moving machinery in the 1-2k lb range. I had concerns and my pops posted an ad after I spoke to him and we got a few calls from guys that could do it fairly cheap. Don't remember the exact cost but I think it was around $100.

The other option I found was to call a wrecker service. Find one of the bigger guys in your area and they will likely have one of those large wreckers with the boom or cherry picker and the guy I called was willing to come out and use it to pull my power hammer off my trailer and drop it into my shop. Again I think it was around ~100.

I've bought quite a few giant tools since I started making knives a few years ago and have done quite a bit of research into loading, unloading and rigging large equipment. While researching I came across many unique ideas people have used such as building giant a-frames out of 4x4's or 6x6's with engine hoists above their trailer or truck. Skates or pipes and spud bars seamed to be a popular low cost solution. Engine hoists like Karl mentioned seem to work, Salem has some photos of moving his stuff with one but i believe you need to get one of the larger more costly models to make it worth it, or even possible depending on how tall the SG is.

I also saw a lot of failed attempts with mills, lathes and such falling off the trailer and what could have been a couple hundred dollar invoice to a mover ended up costing 1000's to repair a tool that wasn't even in the shop yet. Even worse is injury, it just isn't worth it if you don't know what you are doing. If a tool like that falls towards you and you trip, your going to the hospital.

In my case, after the powerhammer (we ended up manhandling it off my trailer somehow) I just solved the problem and bought a small 3k lb forklift :D

Good luck

-Clint
 
I second pretty much all that Karl said. Engine hoist, couple of straps or chokers, no problem. It doesn't look that tall, and even if it's top heavy, some common sense rigging to your pick point and that 1000 lbs. won't be much to deal with. A regular 2 ton engine hoist, available pretty much anywhere, should handle it easily.
If the machine seems not completely worn out, the price sounds good to me. I paid $550 for my surface grinder, and that was a STEAL. It worked out fine, too. Mine is 3000 lbs! I skid it around if necessary with a pinch bar...
 
Well, due to my dog's health issues I'm having to resist the urge to buy this piece. Hopefully we don't have shell out for an MRI and surgery for the little pup :/

Either way, I wanted to follow up with this thread and let you guys know here more about the sale. In case anyone here was interested in it. The machine is in Northeast Kansas, Manhattan to be exact. Not sure if it's okay or not. It's not me selling something so I think it's okay. If it's not okay, please have mercy on my soul. Here's the guy's Craigslist ad:

https://ksu.craigslist.org/tls/5860623172.html


I had the guy talked down to $600 and that was only with a brief conversation, so he might go lower. I'm a haggling SOB though and usually lowball until they won't go lower, then pay them one step above that. :D
 
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